Mastermind GT Question

[GreatGreen]

If I'm using 4 Amps in a preset, Amp1X, 1Y, 2X, and 2Y, is there a way I can setup 4 buttons on the GT labeled CH1, CH2, CH3, and CH4 so that hitting each button activates its respective Amp block and toggles the respective X/Y state, while also showing on the board itself being activated while the other 3 as disengaged?

Basically, picture a normal non-midi amp with 4 channels and a foot pedal with a single button per channel. Can I setup 4 buttons on the Mastermind GT to behave like that with Axe-Fx amp blocks?

 

[Johan Allard]

No, unfortunately not.

What would be needed would be a 4 Midi CC in the Axe Fx to:

- Enable Amp 1 in X state
- Enable Amp 1 in Y state
- Enable Amp 2 in X state
- Enable Amp 2 in Y state

but we don't. We only have, Enable Amp 1, and Toggle Amp 1 X/Y. This means that since the MMGT can't keep track of what state Amp1 and Amp2 is currently in, it doesn't know if it should send the Toggle X/Y or not. So without the Axe Fx being updated with more specific midi messages to enable a block in a specific state, it won't be possible.

I made a wish a year or so ago but can't find it now. It didn't seem very popular but I'd think it would be super useful for more advanced controllers like the MMGT.

 

[atquinn]

If I'm using 4 Amps in a preset, Amp1X, 1Y, 2X, and 2Y, is there a way I can setup 4 buttons on the GT labeled CH1, CH2, CH3, and CH4 so that hitting each button activates its respective Amp block and toggles the respective X/Y state, while also showing on the board itself being activated while the other 3 as disengaged?

Basically, picture a normal non-midi amp with 4 channels and a foot pedal with a single button per channel. Can I setup 4 buttons on the Mastermind GT to behave like that with Axe-Fx amp blocks?

Hmm, I don't see why the GT couldn't be setup like that? One button push can be set to do many things, so you would have to have each button push, disable the other Amp block, select X/Y in the amp block you want, and enable the Amp block. Then you would group the 4 buttons so that only one was active at a time. Here's what the code to Turn on Amp 1 in the X state would look like. The first action turns off Amp 2 when the button is on. The 2nd turns on Amp 1. The 3rd makes the state X.

Not sure how the tracking of it would go in terms of what buttons would be lit up when? It might be fine as long as you always have all presets start in Amp 1 X. I'll try to push the configuration to my GT tonight and let you know how much of a disaster it is
-
Austin

 

[GreatGreen]

Awesome, thanks atquinn.

I was looking at the Axe-Fx's MIDI capabilities and found this, just like you showed:

Amp 1 block bypass is CC# 37, enabled value=127 and bypassed value=0
Amp 2 block bypass is CC# 38, enabled value=127 and bypassed value=0
Amp 1 X/Y toggle is CC# 100, X value=0 and Y value=127
Amp 2 X/Y toggle is CC# 101, X value=0 and Y value=127

So considering that you can make any given switch send multiple MIDI commands, you could definitely do it. The question is now whether it's possible to setup the Axe-Fx and GT so that the GT always accurately displays what's going on in the Axe.

 

[atquinn]

Awesome, thanks atquinn.

I was looking at the Axe-Fx's MIDI capabilities and found this, just like you showed:

Amp 1 block bypass is CC# 37, enabled value=127 and bypassed value=0
Amp 2 block bypass is CC# 38, enabled value=127 and bypassed value=0
Amp 1 X/Y toggle is CC# 100, X value=0 and Y value=127
Amp 2 X/Y toggle is CC# 101, X value=0 and Y value=127

So considering that you can make any given switch send multiple MIDI commands, you could definitely do it. The question is now whether it's possible to setup the Axe-Fx and GT so that the GT always accurately displays what's going on in the Axe.

I have the configuration all setup in my GT editor, I just need to push it to the unit tonight and see what it does. From what I understand, the GT senses the state based on the value of the first parameter. I set the 4 buttons up with the following first "on" parameters
Amp 1 X, Amp 1 on
Amp 1 Y, Amp 1 Y state
Amp 2 X, Amp 2 on
Amp 2 Y, Amp 2 Y state

Since the buttons are grouped, only one will be lit up at a time. If the buttons detect the initial state, then I would think they should light up correctly as long as the preset is saved with either Amp 1 or Amp 2 in the X state since that would meet the conditions for only one of the buttons to be on. If they were saved in the Y state, then that would meet the condition for 2 buttons and that might create problems.

Assuming it works at all, of course
-
Austin

 

[GreatGreen]

I downloaded and played with the editor a bit too.

It looks like you can group 4 buttons so that only one of them activates at a time, then select "only send ON messages" and then make each button send several "on" messages to the Axe-Fx. The confusing thing is that an "ON" message doesn't mean "send a CC#=on" or "CC#=127" command, it means "when the Mastermind button is ENGAGED, send this."

So, you could make every button in the group send something like this:

1. Activate Amp 1 X
Axe-Fx CC#37 = 127 (sets Amp 1 bypass state to enabled)
Axe-Fx CC#38 = 0 (sets Amp 2 bypass state to bypassed)
Axe-Fx CC#100 = 0 (sets Amp 1 X/Y state to X)

2. Activate Amp 1 Y
Axe-Fx CC#37 = 127 (sets Amp 1 bypass state to enabled)
Axe-Fx CC#38 = 0 (sets Amp 2 bypass state to bypassed)
Axe-Fx CC#100 = 127 (sets Amp 1 X/Y state to Y)

3. Activate Amp 2 X
Axe-Fx CC#37 = 0 (sets Amp 1 bypass state to bypassed)
Axe-Fx CC#38 = 127 (sets Amp 2 bypass state to enabled)
Axe-Fx CC#101 = 0 (sets Amp 2 X/Y state to X)

3. Activate Amp 2 Y
Axe-Fx CC#37 = 0 (sets Amp 1 bypass state to bypassed)
Axe-Fx CC#38 = 127 (sets Amp 2 bypass state to enabled)
Axe-Fx CC#101 = 127 (sets Amp 2 X/Y state to Y)


That should work, actually. Even if it's not synced when you enable the patch, any one of those button presses should sync everything up just fine.

 

[atquinn]

I downloaded and played with the editor a bit too.

It looks like you can group 4 buttons so that only one of them activates at a time, then select "only send ON messages" and then make each button send several "on" messages to the Axe-Fx. The confusing thing is that an "ON" message doesn't mean "send a CC#=on" or "CC#=127" command, it means "when the Mastermind button is ENGAGED, send this."

So, you could make every button in the group send something like this:

1. Activate Amp 1 X
Axe-Fx CC#37 = 127 (sets Amp 1 bypass state to enabled)
Axe-Fx CC#38 = 0 (sets Amp 2 bypass state to bypassed)
Axe-Fx CC#100 = 0 (sets Amp 1 X/Y state to X)

2. Activate Amp 1 Y
Axe-Fx CC#37 = 127 (sets Amp 1 bypass state to enabled)
Axe-Fx CC#38 = 0 (sets Amp 2 bypass state to bypassed)
Axe-Fx CC#100 = 127 (sets Amp 1 X/Y state to Y)

3. Activate Amp 2 X
Axe-Fx CC#37 = 0 (sets Amp 1 bypass state to bypassed)
Axe-Fx CC#38 = 127 (sets Amp 2 bypass state to enabled)
Axe-Fx CC#101 = 0 (sets Amp 2 X/Y state to X)

3. Activate Amp 2 Y
Axe-Fx CC#37 = 0 (sets Amp 1 bypass state to bypassed)
Axe-Fx CC#38 = 127 (sets Amp 2 bypass state to enabled)
Axe-Fx CC#101 = 127 (sets Amp 2 X/Y state to Y)


That should work, actually. Even if it's not synced when you enable the patch, any one of those button presses should sync everything up just fine.

Yes, that's essentially what I did. Except I didn't use the same command order for each button. The way I did it, they should sync fine for presets where only Amp1 or Amp2 enabled in the X state when the preset loads. If you have a preset where a Y state is enabled when the preset loads, it's easy enough to swap X and Y. I'm not sure what will happen for presets where both amps are enabled, but for those presets you wouldn't be using any of those buttons anyway, so it doesn't matter.

In a few hours, I'll know if it works or not.
-
Austin

 

[atquinn]

If I'm using 4 Amps in a preset, Amp1X, 1Y, 2X, and 2Y, is there a way I can setup 4 buttons on the GT labeled CH1, CH2, CH3, and CH4 so that hitting each button activates its respective Amp block and toggles the respective X/Y state, while also showing on the board itself being activated while the other 3 as disengaged?

Basically, picture a normal non-midi amp with 4 channels and a foot pedal with a single button per channel. Can I setup 4 buttons on the Mastermind GT to behave like that with Axe-Fx amp blocks?

I tried it and it worked exactly as predicted. So that answer is yes! Also, in order to save buttons, it might be possible to have Amp 1 X and Amp 1 Y on the same button as the hold function and then do the same for another button with Amp 2 X and Y. Of course, if would take a while to switch due to the hold time. Also, there can be a switching gap depending on what the states of the amp blocks are. Nothing new there. Anyway, very cool functionality! Thanks for the question!
-
Austin

 

[Johan Allard]

I downloaded and played with the editor a bit too.

It looks like you can group 4 buttons so that only one of them activates at a time, then select "only send ON messages" and then make each button send several "on" messages to the Axe-Fx. The confusing thing is that an "ON" message doesn't mean "send a CC#=on" or "CC#=127" command, it means "when the Mastermind button is ENGAGED, send this."

So, you could make every button in the group send something like this:

1. Activate Amp 1 X
Axe-Fx CC#37 = 127 (sets Amp 1 bypass state to enabled)
Axe-Fx CC#38 = 0 (sets Amp 2 bypass state to bypassed)
Axe-Fx CC#100 = 0 (sets Amp 1 X/Y state to X)

2. Activate Amp 1 Y
Axe-Fx CC#37 = 127 (sets Amp 1 bypass state to enabled)
Axe-Fx CC#38 = 0 (sets Amp 2 bypass state to bypassed)
Axe-Fx CC#100 = 127 (sets Amp 1 X/Y state to Y)

3. Activate Amp 2 X
Axe-Fx CC#37 = 0 (sets Amp 1 bypass state to bypassed)
Axe-Fx CC#38 = 127 (sets Amp 2 bypass state to enabled)
Axe-Fx CC#101 = 0 (sets Amp 2 X/Y state to X)

3. Activate Amp 2 Y
Axe-Fx CC#37 = 0 (sets Amp 1 bypass state to bypassed)
Axe-Fx CC#38 = 127 (sets Amp 2 bypass state to enabled)
Axe-Fx CC#101 = 127 (sets Amp 2 X/Y state to Y)


That should work, actually. Even if it's not synced when you enable the patch, any one of those button presses should sync everything up just fine.

It doesn't work unfortunately - Axe-Fx CC#100 = 127 doesn't set AMP1 X/Y state to Y, it toggles AMP1 X/Y state. So:

- If you're on AMP1 X, sending Axe-Fx CC#100 = 127 sets AMP1 to Y,
- If you're on AMP1 Y, sending Axe-Fx CC#100 = 127 sets AMP1 to X.

Also, sending Axe-Fx CC#100 = 0 doesn't mean, set AMP1 to X, it simply means, don't toggle X/Y state.

 

[atquinn]

It doesn't work unfortunately - Axe-Fx CC#100 = 127 doesn't set AMP1 X/Y state to Y, it toggles AMP1 X/Y state. So:

- If you're on AMP1 X, sending Axe-Fx CC#100 = 127 sets AMP1 to Y,
- If you're on AMP1 Y, sending Axe-Fx CC#100 = 127 sets AMP1 to X.

Also, sending Axe-Fx CC#100 = 0 doesn't mean, set AMP1 to X, it simply means, don't toggle X/Y state.

I tried it tonight on my GT22 and, it worked, so... *shrugs* Either you're wrong about what the CC commands are doing or it doesn't matter what they're doing because the programming works around it. Remember, my conditions are that the preset must start with either the Amp 1 or Amp 2 in the X state and active. If I did that, then everything worked fine. If it didn't, everything still worked fine, but the indicator lights on the buttons weren't correct.

I can send you my config if you want to try it for yourself, but it definitely works.
-
Austin

 

[GreatGreen]

Thanks atquinn!

Hey, one more question if that's cool. When you create an IA button for changing Scenes, do the other AI buttons change to reflect the new Scene?

In other words, if I enter a patch in Scene 1 and then I hit a Scene 2 button on the board that activates Drive 1, Delay 1, and Reverb 1 effects, will the other IA switches I've devoted to Drive 1, Delay 1, and Reverb 1 change to reflect the new Scene?

 

[atquinn]

Thanks atquinn!

Hey, one more question if that's cool. When you create an IA button for changing Scenes, do the other AI buttons change to reflect the new Scene?

In other words, if I enter a patch in Scene 1 and then I hit a Scene 2 button on the board that activates Drive 1, Delay 1, and Reverb 1 effects, will the other IA switches I've devoted to Drive 1, Delay 1, and Reverb 1 change to reflect the new Scene?

Yes, everything is in sync. The default setup is to have the bottom preset buttons double as Scene buttons in IA mode and I didn't change that. However, I also added a Scene UP button (that doubles a Preset# select button on a hold press) for just scrolling through scenes. And that also syncs with the Scene buttons. So if I go into IA mode and use the Scene Up button, the correspond Scene# button will light up.

The only thing that doesn't sync prefectly are the Preset names. If you setup the GT for communication with the Axe and don't do anything else, the preset names on the buttons will be blank and as you go to each preset, the name will be read into the GT. But the GT also comes with a function that will just take a few minutes and read all the names of the presets into the GT, so that's what most people would do. If you change the name of a preset, it's no big deal as it will updated the next time the preset loads.
-
Austin

 

[mr_fender]

It doesn't work unfortunately - Axe-Fx CC#100 = 127 doesn't set AMP1 X/Y state to Y, it toggles AMP1 X/Y state. So:

- If you're on AMP1 X, sending Axe-Fx CC#100 = 127 sets AMP1 to Y,
- If you're on AMP1 Y, sending Axe-Fx CC#100 = 127 sets AMP1 to X.

Also, sending Axe-Fx CC#100 = 0 doesn't mean, set AMP1 to X, it simply means, don't toggle X/Y state.

This is not true. MIDI CC messages for Block X/Y do not toggle the state. The message value specifies the X/Y state to select. Values from 0 to 63 select the Y state. Values from 64 to 127 select the X state.

 

[Johan Allard]

This is not true. MIDI CC messages for Block X/Y do not toggle the state. The message value specifies the X/Y state to select. Values from 0 to 63 select the Y state. Values from 64 to 127 select the X state.

Indeed, I stand corrected. I'm sure I've tried this before and couldn't get it to work. I've tried it again now and it indeed works as described. I'm sorry for any confusion I may have caused!