Marshall JVM and Axe FXiii

Chriscwt1

Chriscwt1

Inspired
Hi,

I have just picked up a Marshall JVM410h and wondered if anyone had experience of using this with the Axe Fxiii via the 4 cable method. A few years ago I had a JVM410c which i attempted to rig up with a TC Electronics G System via 4cm but using the Marshall on anything but the cleanest settings produced so much noise that it was unworkable.

Any insights / hints would be much appreciated.
 
Just use humbuster cables and you’ll be fine! The manual should have enough info to get you up and running in no time.

Humbuster cables are basically a TRS cable with one end being a regular TS jack. You can make your own pretty easily but if you don’t want to do that, you can find them online via Fractal or G66.
 
I have my AxeFX III and JVM 410hjs integrated.

The HJS has a much richer MIDI interface Than the H. You can change channels, modes, turn features on/off on the HJS. The H has a more limited MIDI interface. I really like having MIDI integration between the Axe III and the JVM.

As far as 4CM, I found it to be too noisy. But I was able to address the noise with a bit of work and some $$$.

First I got an EBTech Hum Eliminator TRS in rack format. The TRS model has auto sensing jacks so you can use TRS or TS cable and it will sense how to send signal through the cable.

Each cable on my rig goes through the hum eliminator. Here is the thing though: I got a bunch of cheap patch cables in TRS, TS, and made 8 humbuster patch cables. I tried each different type of cable for each connection. Watched the noise floor and selected the cable that lowered the noise floor the most. This helped a lot with the noise.

Once I knew the types of cable connections I needed, I had two high quality custom snakes created with the appropriate connectors. One from the Axe to the EBTech and one from the EBTech to the JVM.

Then I set the levels on the Axe FX unit and input/output blocks and JVM fx loop. This lowered the noise flooring a reasonable amount.

Next I got rack isolation tabs and added them to all of the components mounted in my rack. This prevents the grounds from bonding through the rack chassis and again lowered the noise floor a bit.

Next I layed out some $$$ to get some power protection and conditioning in the rack. I got a Furman P-1800 AR and a Furman P-1800 PF R. When used together in serial in a specific way these two units reduce noise from dirty power. This lowered the noise floor too.

As a note… everything in my rig powers via the Furman AR. The AxeFx, the JVM, and my FRFR power amp. If you power any component in the signal chain from a separate wall socket you will bypass all of the benefits afforded by yhe AR + PF R combo.

At this point the rig had a good noise floor. As a last step, I tweaked the guitar input block in my axe fx preset to reduce some noise without killing the tone.

I have a really quiet 4CM rig now. Doesn’t sound like a jet on the tarmac waiting for takeoff. It was a lot of messing around and trial/error, but I enjoy geeking out on stuff like that. YMMV.
 
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Well done! Lots of work and cost, glad it worked out well.

Seems a shame for everyone who wants to do 4CM with that amp to have to do all that experimentation over again. Do you see any patterns in which types of cables to use where? Maybe document what worked best here, if you're up for it.
 
Dave Merrill said:
Well done! Lots of work and cost, glad it worked out well.

Seems a shame for everyone who wants to do 4CM with that amp to have to do all that experimentation over again. Do you see any patterns in which types of cables to use where? Maybe document what worked best here, if you're up for it.
Click to expand...
I have tried documenting it. There is a lot of information and it gets busy/overwhelming quickly. Would have to think through how to approach the documentation so that it is “digestable”. Does that make sense?
 
FrankenStrat said:
I have tried documenting it. There is a lot of information and it gets busy/overwhelming quickly. Would have to think through how to approach the documentation so that it is “digestable”. Does that make sense?
Click to expand...
Writing good docs for a nontrivial situation is hard! As you can tell by the preponderance of crap instructions, even for simple stuff. It's really easy to assume things not everyone is aware of, use ambiguous wording, skip steps that were so obvious to you you didn't even notice them, etc.

Anyway, hats off if you try, it sounds like you went through a lot.

I'm lucky in that I currently have no desire for a real amp (mostly), and if I did get one, it'd be to revisit organic tube-land, so no 4CM for me.
 
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Saarang Narayan said:
Just use humbuster cables and you’ll be fine! The manual should have enough info to get you up and running in no time.

Humbuster cables are basically a TRS cable with one end being a regular TS jack. You can make your own pretty easily but if you don’t want to do that, you can find them online via Fractal or G66.
Click to expand...
If I understand the manual correctly, you need 2 humbuster cables and 2 TS instrument cables for the 4CM?
 
shout out to Frankenstrat for that overview - wow !

I confess that I have bought the JVM simply because too many of the bands I audition for are intimidated by the Axe FX and just want a 'traditional' set up (a common phenomenon???). The idea of using them both is just me seeking to get maximum 'bang for my pounds' (doesn't sound as good as 'bucks' does it LOL)

thanks to all - very much appreciated and that's why I love this forum
 
FrankenStrat said:
I have my AxeFX III and JVM 410hjs integrated.

The HJS has a much richer MIDI interface Than the H. You can change channels, modes, turn features on/off on the HJS. The H has a more limited MIDI interface. I really like having MIDI integration between the Axe III and the JVM.

As far as 4CM, I found it to be too noisy. But I was able to address the noise with a bit of work and some $$$.

First I got an EBTech Hum Eliminator TRS in rack format. The TRS model has auto sensing jacks so you can use TRS or TS cable and it will sense how to send signal through the cable.

Each cable on my rig goes through the hum eliminator. Here is the thing though: I got a bunch of cheap patch cables in TRS, TS, and made 8 humbuster patch cables. I tried each different type of cable for each connection. Watched the noise floor and selected the cable that lowered the noise floor the most. This helped a lot with the noise.

Once I knew the types of cable connections I needed, I had two high quality custom snakes created with the appropriate connectors. One from the Axe to the EBTech and one from the EBTech to the JVM.

Then I set the levels on the Axe FX unit and input/output blocks and JVM fx loop. This lowered the noise flooring a reasonable amount.

Next I got rack isolation tabs and added them to all of the components mounted in my rack. This prevents the grounds from bonding through the rack chassis and again lowered the noise floor a bit.

Next I layed out some $$$ to get some power protection and conditioning in the rack. I got a Furman P-1800 AR and a Furman P-1800 PF R. When used together in serial in a specific way these two units reduce noise from dirty power. This lowered the noise floor too.

As a note… everything in my rig powers via the Furman AR. The AxeFx, the JVM, and my FRFR power amp. If you power any component in the signal chain from a separate wall socket you will bypass all of the benefits afforded by yhe AR + PF R combo.

At this point the rig had a good noise floor. As a last step, I tweaked the guitar input block in my axe fx preset to reduce some noise without killing the tone.

I have a really quiet 4CM rig now. Doesn’t sound like a jet on the tarmac waiting for takeoff. It was a lot of messing around and trial/error, but I enjoy geeking out on stuff like that. YMMV.
Click to expand...
Wow - that's a pretty insane process just to eliminate hum! You playing Carnegie Hall anytime soon!?

For real though - congrats on figuring it out man. Hum is hell.
 
good luck the JVM410H on any of the OD channels modes is a noisy SOB and Series Parellel fx loop sucks with major loss in volume and tone if engaged the 2nd/insert loop is fine for some reason but it runs at line level and you cant switch it via midi or the fron panel so always got to do the old reach around if you ever wanna bypass it. I had a JVM410H and never was happy with the frist fx loop but had good results with the 2nd/insert loop with running rack FX in it. loved the amp and bought a used FX II to use in 4cm but honestly the JVM models & FX models where good enough in it i ended up selling it and my ADA MP1 & rack FX prosscers along with returning the FX II to get a FX III turbo/FC12 with some cash left over.
 
Thanks everyone. Yeah, I have to be honest that I am not expecting too much. I picked the JVM up for a song and I used to have a JVM410C which had a great tone, but it definitely didn't 'play well with others'. I am happy just to have a 'simple' rig and the Fractal for when I feel a bit more imaginative - no hardship.
 
Similar process here to 4CM my H+K with minimal noise.
  • Humbuster to amp input (humbuster to amp return made no difference in my case).
  • Iso box before amp input.
  • Iso box before amp return.
  • Same power circuit used for all, + thru power conditioner.
  • Rack spaces isolated.
  • Use unity gain Axfx loop (3) for external pre (requires no level matching at stock settings).
  • Out3 Boost/Pad set as low as possible for max noise reduction with no output3 clipping risk even with an Axfx Drive / OD block pushing the outboard preamp's input (6 or 12Db is good for me, 18/24 clips out3).
  • On higher gain settings, light use of gate on input3 (in addition to the usual input1 gate).
  • Midi amp channel switcher synched to Axfx scenes.
Interestingly, my other less expensive amp is much quieter and does not need any iso boxes.

Saved $ by making my own humbuster cable, using cheaper but still good quality transparent iso boxes (careful selecting these - some affect signal), iso'd rack spaces myself using tape,..
 
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AlexGuitar said:
Wow - that's a pretty insane process just to eliminate hum! You playing Carnegie Hall anytime soon!?

For real though - congrats on figuring it out man. Hum is hell.
Click to expand...
Like I said, I enjoy geeking out on stuff like this. It was never about the destination and always about the journey. I like to figure out and solve problems.
 
sprint said:
Similar process here to 4CM my H+K with minimal noise.
  • Humbuster to amp input (humbuster to amp return made no difference in my case).
  • Iso box before amp input.
  • Iso box before amp return.
  • Same power circuit used for all, + thru power conditioner.
  • Rack spaces isolated.
  • Use unity gain Axfx loop (3) for external pre (requires no level matching at stock settings).
  • Out3 Boost/Pad set as low as possible for max noise reduction with no output3 clipping risk even with an Axfx Drive / OD block pushing the outboard preamp's input (6 or 12Db is good for me, 18/24 clips out3).
  • On higher gain settings, light use of gate on input3 (in addition to the usual input1 gate).
  • Midi amp channel switcher synched to Axfx scenes.
Interestingly, my other less expensive amp is much quieter and does not need any iso boxes.

Saved $ by making my own humbuster cable, using cheaper but still good quality transparent iso boxes (careful selecting these - some affect signal), iso'd rack spaces myself using tape,..
Click to expand...
So is Humbuster truly needed or just best practice?
 
GuitarGuy316 said:
So is Humbuster truly needed or just best practice?
Click to expand...
I measure a small difference in noise using humbuster out from output 3 or 4 to the input of gainy pedals / preamps, but no difference out to fx returns / power amps which makes sense. It minimizes noise but does not negate the overall noise one usually gets with gain, ungrounded guitar ... that just is what it is.
 
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