Low down on redwirez....

[joegold]

Point of fact:

Cliff used the same Earthworks TC reference mic as Red Wire does.

True.
The TC30.

And Red Wire does have Earthworks TC far field IR's.

That's true only for some of the cabs, as far as I can see in my limited collection.

Still, the RW TC30 IRs don't sound anywhere near as good to me as the Axe's stock IRs and don't seem to be nearly as useful, at least not on their own.
But I'm sure that there's all sorts of cool tricks that one can get into by combing the RW TC30 IRs with one or more of their other IRs.

I don't mean to be dissing the RW collection of IRs.
It's a fine collection.
All I'm saying is that there is something else going on in the Axe's stock IRs, a something that I tend to like better for most of my purposes.

 

[mtmartin71]

I'll have to retry them, but I too felt the TC 30s from Redwirez were not very useful, even the ones that are mic'd at various positions and 0'. It does get a little confusing as the old ones have a folder called "TC30-Ref-FarFields" and the new ones have a folder called "Earthworks TC30". Both appear to include close mic positions at 0" and different speaker positions but the latter does not include the far fields. I don't think I've tried the "Earthworks TC30" mics but wouldn't they be the same or did they use a different technique for new vs. old that includes far field and close mic positions and then the newer ones have a Earthworks TC Folder that only includes close mic positions. Does anyone know if these two are different? They seem to include the same positions as far as close mic'ing.

I may go back to experimenting with the stock cabs because I'm growing tired of the IR rat hole...for me. In trying them, I found the 4x12 V30 and 4x12 25W to sound best in that space. The 4x12 German was also good for a more modern sound. I would say though that the new option use the tube amp/speaker interaction on the Redwirez mixer did seem to add punch that I felt my IRs were lacking. I may play around with that some more with a neutral mic. I WANT to like the SM57 and seem to have a love/hate relationship with it. I know it will help me cut but all be darned if it doesn't sound too sizzly and nasaly for me even off axis. I like a more woody sound myself but I know that's not classic metal and rock.

Question came up on The Gear Page...is there any time alignment or phase issues in combining a stock cab and a Redwirez IR?

 

[yek]

I'll have to retry them, but I too felt the TC 30s from Redwirez were not very useful, even the ones that are mic'd at various positions and 0'. It does get a little confusing as the old ones have a folder called "TC30-Ref-FarFields" and the new ones have a folder called "Earthworks TC30". Both appear to include close mic positions at 0" and different speaker positions but the latter does not include the far fields. I don't think I've tried the "Earthworks TC30" mics but wouldn't they be the same or did they use a different technique for new vs. old that includes far field and close mic positions and then the newer ones have a Earthworks TC Folder that only includes close mic positions. Does anyone know if these two are different? They seem to include the same positions as far as close mic'ing.

I'm experimenting with those TC30s right now. That's the IRs in the "Earthworks TC30" folder. Yes they are different. I asked and got a mail for RW confirming that these are close-mic'd IRs (as the distance indicates). Just 4 IRs per cabinet, and they are not included with every cabinet.

First impressions are quite good. Very solid, beefy and punchy tones. Sound very real. Extra Presence must be added (compared to SM57). No need for a PEQ to save off low/high freqs. I like these better than (some of the) stock cabs without a mic.
Haven't been able yet to test these at louder volume or with a band.

 

[mtmartin71]

I'll have to retry them, but I too felt the TC 30s from Redwirez were not very useful, even the ones that are mic'd at various positions and 0'. It does get a little confusing as the old ones have a folder called "TC30-Ref-FarFields" and the new ones have a folder called "Earthworks TC30". Both appear to include close mic positions at 0" and different speaker positions but the latter does not include the far fields. I don't think I've tried the "Earthworks TC30" mics but wouldn't they be the same or did they use a different technique for new vs. old that includes far field and close mic positions and then the newer ones have a Earthworks TC Folder that only includes close mic positions. Does anyone know if these two are different? They seem to include the same positions as far as close mic'ing.

I'm experimenting with those TC30s right now. That's the IRs in the "Earthworks TC30" folder. Yes they are different. I asked and got a mail for RW confirming that these are close-mic'd IRs (as the distance indicates). Just 4 IRs per cabinet, and they are not included with every cabinet.

First impressions are quite good. Very solid, beefy and punchy tones. Sound very real. Extra Presence must be added (compared to SM57). No need for a PEQ to save off low/high freqs. I like these better than (some of the) stock cabs without a mic.
Haven't been able yet to test these at louder volume or with a band.

Interesting. I used the TC30 Cap 0" on all of my previous cabs and took the PEQ off. In a few instances, I dropped the LF or HF resonance from the default of 5 to 4 depending on a few amps. I do agree that is sounds more like the cab and has a certain punch to it. Crap...just pick!!! AAAAAHHHHHH!!!

 

[knoll]

Wasn't there some talk at one point that RW would redo those farfield IRs but this time using ground plane measurement technique.

 

[mtmartin71]

Well, after working with the TC30 IRs, I'm back to the KM84 IRs...capedge 2" on all. That with PEQs seems to dial in a sound that is closest to my Marshall 1960AV cab. No SM57 coloration and a nice roundness too it. Trying the TC30 and the SM57 IRs again just solidified that the KM84 at the suggested placement seems to capture the cab sound the best to my ears. I could probably use them without the PEQ but I like what the PEQ does to the sound through my QSC K10.

 

[Soopahmahn]

Bump with a n00btastic question - when I run IR's with a TC30 mic, am I "supposed" to add a mic sim on top of it? I know I know, whatever sounds good yadda yadda... but if that's the method that was used in the factory cabs, then I should be able to color the "neutral" TC30 IR with a mic sim, yes?

I tried adding an SM57 sim to an IR of a Rectifier/V30 cab mic'ed with an SM57 and I thought I was just adding another layer of ratty presence. Sounded "wrong." Conversely, the TC30 doesn't sound shabby without a mic sim on top.

 

[redwire]

Wasn't there some talk at one point that RW would redo those farfield IRs but this time using ground plane measurement technique.

We did use a ground plane measurement technique. That wasn't the problem. They were reasonably good representations of an on-axis guitar cab. What we discovered is that you guys prefer off-axis measurements. I do, too. Just how far off-axis depends on the person. So, either we decide what it should sound like and pick one position, which kinda goes against our philosophy or we do a number of different positions. We've just been working on other stuff. And since the far-fields require a completely different set up and workflow, we have not been able to redo them.

 

[Soopahmahn]

Bump with a n00btastic question - when I run IR's with a TC30 mic, am I "supposed" to add a mic sim on top of it? I know I know, whatever sounds good yadda yadda... but if that's the method that was used in the factory cabs, then I should be able to color the "neutral" TC30 IR with a mic sim, yes?

I tried adding an SM57 sim to an IR of a Rectifier/V30 cab mic'ed with an SM57 and I thought I was just adding another layer of ratty presence. Sounded "wrong." Conversely, the TC30 doesn't sound shabby without a mic sim on top.

Follow-up: how do the mic sims in the Axe-Fx actually work? I did some searching here and through Google, and despite finding an entertaining thread by one "Tone-Freak" I didn't find what I was looking for. Are the mic sims just EQ curves, or are they somehow impulse responses as well?

 

[Scott Peterson]

Follow-up: how do the mic sims in the Axe-Fx actually work? I did some searching here and through Google, and despite finding an entertaining thread by one "Tone-Freak" I didn't find what I was looking for. Are the mic sims just EQ curves, or are they somehow impulse responses as well?

As far as I know it is an impulse response. Please fact check me on that though.

 

[Soopahmahn]

As far as I know it is an impulse response. Please fact check me on that though.

I tried! :lol

How does one impulse response a microphone? Blast it with a reference signal through a reference speaker and compare the impulse to that of a reference microphone?

I'm enjoying some Redwire impulses (TC30 microphones) and while they sound decent on their own, I'm adding Axe-Fx mic sims to them and it sounds very good. I know I should "trust my ears," but it's also easy to chase a rabbit down a false hole... If I am adding distortions that should not be added for advanced reasons that I don't yet understand (will interfere later when mixing, etc) then I wish to avoid the folly and achieve my sound through another tactic.

Plus, I just have to know these things. Damn engineer brain.

 

[Scott Peterson]

I tried! :lol

How does one impulse response a microphone? Blast it with a reference signal through a reference speaker and compare the impulse to that of a reference microphone?

I'm enjoying some Redwire impulses (TC30 microphones) and while they sound decent on their own, I'm adding Axe-Fx mic sims to them and it sounds very good. I know I should "trust my ears," but it's also easy to chase a rabbit down a false hole... If I am adding distortions that should not be added for advanced reasons that I don't yet understand (will interfere later when mixing, etc) then I wish to avoid the folly and achieve my sound through another tactic.

Plus, I just have to know these things. Damn engineer brain.

I have no clue how. I just play the damn box.

I just *thought* I had read that somewhere here down the line. Again, not a statement of fact at all. I am not an engineer. In fact, I dropped Pre-Calc three (yes, three) times because I was too stupid to get it freshman.... and then sophomore year. So I switched my major over to English.

 

[Soopahmahn]

I just *thought* I had read that somewhere here down the line. Again, not a statement of fact at all. I am not an engineer. In fact, I dropped Pre-Calc three (yes, three) times because I was too stupid to get it freshman.... and then sophomore year. So I switched my major over to English.

I'll have to borrow a smiley from another forum:

You run some Redwire IR's right Scott? Do you use the method I described, or do you just load a <Rectifier-V30-SM57-0"-cap_edge> if that's what you want?

 

[Scott Peterson]

I'll have to borrow a smiley from another forum:

You run some Redwire IR's right Scott? Do you use the method I described, or do you just load a <Rectifier-V30-SM57-0"-cap_edge> if that's what you want?

On the Gen1 platform (Standard/Ultra) I ran exact IR's I wanted or mixes thereof to get what I wanted. I did not use the mic models in the Ultra/Standard, instead just used the exact IR and/or mix of IR's I wanted to achieve the goals desired.

On the Gen2 box, the IR's are different. It comes loaded with the factory IRs' from Gen1, *plus* a whole slew of RedWire and OwnHammer IR's in the 70 factory cabs (plus you get 50 User Cabs to add on your own). The Gen2 are at 2048k resolution; you can split into a stereo cab and still be at 1024k resolution. So I am 'mixing' in the Axe-FX running a stereo cab block with different IR choices in one cab block (I am panning +20% L/R -20% for some spread, but enough crossover between the two also). Or so.

You can choose, just as in Gen1, the 'no mic' option which is a TC30 of the given speaker IR you choose. Even on their own, just mono and using one speaker, they sound better. I am assuming - though I do NOT know - they are a mix, just based on what I am hearing. So now, I notice that choosing a mic model also just sounds great, and comes down to choosing the right mic based on what you want tonally. Or do NOT want, not choosing any mic (for more a raw sound).

It's very practical and works great in both boxes; but the Gen2 box just makes it easier. IMHO. YMMV.