Low and High Cut For Live Performance

[4406cuda]

Where are you all setting your low and high cuts for your live performances?

I have been cutting everything above 5500 with a 12db slope in the preamp tab with in the cab block. I am thinking of going down below 5000. I use a lot of fender and Marshall amps with the Marshall and EV 4x12 dynacabs.

 

[chrisxs2003]

Low cut 70hz, 12db slope. High cut 6500hz, 12db slope

Our engineer puts a PEQ on my guitar and cuts the lows some. At 70hz, my IEMs sound full though and it doesn't really bother FOH

 

[jetdriver1775]

I found this helpful for live presets. At home, I leave the PEQ block off. But at loud volumes, this helps.

 

[4406cuda]

I found this helpful for live presets. At home, I leave the PEQ block off. But at loud volumes, this helps.

I wonder why he didn’t just cut those same frequencies in the cab block as he did in the peq?

 

[InsideOut]

I wonder why he didn’t just cut those same frequencies in the cab block as he did in the peq?

I think this was answered in the post just before yours. With a PEQ block, you can bypass it when playing low volume, and engage when playing gig volume. Much easier to bypass a block than change cab settings.

 

[jetdriver1775]

I use Leon Todd's settings, for a few more options than just lo/high cuts. Works well for high volume rocking.

 

[Lkdog]

If you check out Austin Buddy presets pack LIVE GOLD which are geared toward live gigs and stage use you can see what he does in terms of various AMP and associated CABS lo and high cut.

I will say that in all factory presets I use I set the CAB lo cut to 75hz and the high cut to 7500 hz per Cliff's suggestion as a starting point. I am not a big tweaker but the lo cut especially is a great adjustment.
I remember when I played around with a Helix for awhile a few years ago and it was an absolute must or all of the presets sounded terrible.

Lo and Hi cut for CABS

 

[Sashman]

I think this was answered in the post just before yours. With a PEQ block, you can bypass it when playing low volume, and engage when playing gig volume. Much easier to bypass a block than change cab settings.

This, I do use similar settings live and I can switch the PEQ block off when I‘m playing at home etc.

 

[GuyJames]

80hz low and 5000hz high cut with 24db slope in the cab preamp. When I play live and loud (IEM’s or not) this just makes it sweeter. Even with recording I feel like it’s best to limit the spectrum to what a real guitar speakers frequency range is.

 

[tubelessone]

I use 80 and 10k on all my presets at the cab and it works fine. Sometimes I'll go 100 or more on the low end if I don't want it to pop into the sub.

 

[Action Jackson]

Very interested in this topic. I've been a user since the original Axe II, but have mostly only used my Fractals for recording, until now. I never noticed an issue with high and low frequencies coming through my studio monitors (JBL LSR4328P stereo pair & LSR4312SP sub), and was unaware of a need to cut for live scenarios, until more recently. Now that I have a pair of Atomic CLRs for my Axe III, it has become apparent that EQ'ing is necessary. Aside from my interest in how other people are tackling it, I'm wondering why this even is a problem that exists in the first place. I've never worked, professionally, as the mixing engineer live or in the studio, so I'm usually not the one doing the post-mic EQ'ing, but maybe the answer is obvious to those who have. Shouldn't the IR in the signal chain already be limiting the frequency range to what the modeled guitar speakers produce in the real world? Do microphones in the real world, and therefore mics in the IR, somehow add extra sonic information that isn't present at the source? Or is this an issue of volume/SPL? If the latter, I guess that would explain why I've never heard an issue through my studio monitors.

 

[MrPond]

I use 80 and 10k on all my presets at the cab and it works fine. Sometimes I'll go 100 or more on the low end if I don't want it to pop into the sub.

Exactly my setting. Imho 5.5, 6.5 … is too extreme as a high cut, sounds dull, even live ..
10k works great with my YA IR and if it’s too harsh, there is always the option to cut more at the FOH.

 

[aziz]

Yes, sort of. Extreme lows and highs are not troublesome at low volumes, but things change as you get loud. No one listens to the real guitar cabinet with their ear inch from the grill cloth where the microphone is. Proximity effect in directional mics boosts the bass, and a close mic also captures a lot more of those scorching highs than your legs do, so, yes, IR does what a cab does, but the ”scenario” is a bit different.

 

[md1234]

Cab block:
Low Cut: 90 Hz, dB/Oct
High Cut: 5500 Hz, 18dB/Oct

Amp block:
Low cut: to taste

 

[strabes]

The frequency response of the original guitar cab, speaker, mic, mic placement, and mic preamp are all captured in the IR. So I deviate from that as little as possible. High pass around 60hz just to clean up the low end in my ears if I’m getting a pre-FX monitor send (preferable), and around 12k to get rid of the fatiguing ultra high end. For studio, there’s a lot of high end content in isolated guitar stems, especially anything with distortion, and often even more is added with EQ in post. Doing a steep cut at 5k or whatever would sound very dull to me, for live but even more so for recording.

 

[Shask]

The frequency response of the original guitar cab, speaker, mic, mic placement, and mic preamp are all captured in the IR. So I deviate from that as little as possible. High pass around 60hz just to clean up the low end in my ears if I’m getting a pre-FX monitor send (preferable), and around 12k to get rid of the fatiguing ultra high end. There’s a lot of high end content in isolated guitar stems, especially anything with distortion. Doing a steep cut at 5k or whatever would sound very dull to me.

With me I either use a lower cutoff frequency and then raise the presence in the amp block, or use a higher cutoff and a lower presence setting. One or the other has to be lower to not sound scratchy and fizzy.

 

[skolacki]

I’ve been gravitating towards deeper high cuts, especially when I have some volume. Took me some time to get used to it. FR guitar sounds better with the tweeter not working as hard. I’m not fixed on a number cause it depends on the IR, but I’m in the 5500-6500 range at 12db/Oct. Haven’t tried 24 but I will today.

 

[Goonie]

I use 80 and 10k on all my presets at the cab and it works fine. Sometimes I'll go 100 or more on the low end if I don't want it to pop into the sub.

Exactly my setting. Imho 5.5, 6.5 … is too extreme as a high cut, sounds dull, even live ..
10k works great with my YA IR and if it’s too harsh, there is always the option to cut more at the FOH.

Same for me. My hight cut is up around 10k for everything. My thinking on this topic is probably incorrect but here goes....
A good FRFR reproduces the whole frequency spectrum and a IR reproduces the speakers frequencies/cabinet choice, etc yet we hear that most users cut the cab block lower than what the IR would produce. This has me thinking that there would be a loss of the high end and artifacts that are special to that speaker/cab/IR.
Better yet, leave the high cut at 20k and let the IR do what it does.
Personally, when I start cutting below say 8k, I start hearing a rolled off high end and the preset starts getting dull and muffled.

 

[jetdriver1775]

Same for me. My hight cut is up around 10k for everything. My thinking on this topic is probably incorrect but here goes....
A good FRFR reproduces the whole frequency spectrum and a IR reproduces the speakers frequencies/cabinet choice, etc yet we hear that most users cut the cab block lower than what the IR would produce. This has me thinking that there would be a loss of the high end and artifacts that are special to that speaker/cab/IR.
Better yet, leave the high cut at 20k and let the IR do what it does.
Personally, when I start cutting below say 8k, I start hearing a rolled off high end and the preset starts getting dull and muffled.

That’s fine for low volume, bedroom jamming. I’m betting if you crank that up in a loud band type environment it’s gonna sound harsh. Remember a real guitar speaker doesn’t typically produce much, if anything above 6k anyway. Everyone’s tastes are different.

 

[Sevenmodes]

Very interested in this topic. I've been a user since the original Axe II, but have mostly only used my Fractals for recording, until now. I never noticed an issue with high and low frequencies coming through my studio monitors (JBL LSR4328P stereo pair & LSR4312SP sub), and was unaware of a need to cut for live scenarios, until more recently. Now that I have a pair of Atomic CLRs for my Axe III, it has become apparent that EQ'ing is necessary. Aside from my interest in how other people are tackling it, I'm wondering why this even is a problem that exists in the first place. I've never worked, professionally, as the mixing engineer live or in the studio, so I'm usually not the one doing the post-mic EQ'ing, but maybe the answer is obvious to those who have. Shouldn't the IR in the signal chain already be limiting the frequency range to what the modeled guitar speakers produce in the real world? Do microphones in the real world, and therefore mics in the IR, somehow add extra sonic information that isn't present at the source? Or is this an issue of volume/SPL? If the latter, I guess that would explain why I've never heard an issue through my studio monitors.

I’m relatively new to using modelers live, but I have a few decades of live sound experience; so I’ll take a shot from that perspective. Keep in mind, the assumption is were talking about traditional “rock“ guitar.

Generally, since IRs are a capture of a mic’d cabinet under various scenarios (mic type, room, distance, axis, etc), an IR is giving you an accurate representation of a mic’d guitar cab. That‘s great for recording, but not a great image of playing on stage in front of a cab (where a lot of low and high end is naturally lost through dissipation).

Nor is it ideal for a guitar mix in your average rock band, where you would typically EQ a mic‘d amp in a similar fashion (rolling off low/high) for front of house, IEMs and even recordings most of the time. Sure, you could leave all of this to the sound crew, but most of us are either running sound ourselves or putting it in the hands of someone who may not have the best ears or experience.