Loving the cleans, but most of the gain structures sound quite the same : Any advice?

DemolitionColorScheme

DemolitionColorScheme

Inspired
So, I love my Axe-FX ULTRA for cleans and I'm quickly done with editing them and am often satisfied with those quite quickly, however, all of the gain in the amp models sound really quite alike.

I'm using the ULTRA with a Peavey 50/50 Classic Stereo Power Amp with a Koch TS212 cab.
Is it the fact that I run it with a certain power amp and this cab? I'm constantly fiddling with the settings on models like the 5150 model, the JCM 800 / 900 models and the JTM45 model. I like them, but the gain structure is pretty similar and I'm not really 'feeling' that I've switched amps drastically. It kinda bugs me that I still haven't found 'my gain sound'. I try fiddling with the gain, the master, the sag (enabling the power amp modeling and disabling it to let the Peavey work on its own), the damp, depth, presence, the EQ, you name it.

Am I the only one that kinda feels this way?
 
Yes, it's mainly the speaker. And then the poweramp.
6.0 isn't the cause, happens with real pre-amps too.
 
Hm, I'm skeptical, I'm sure that if I connected a 5150 to my cab and then a Sunn Model T that the difference would be way more noticeable than it would be right now.
However, I do agree that a portion of the EQ curve is attributed to the cab and the power amp. The thing I'm actually pointing out is that the gain structure, the grit, the gain itself, is all so similar in regards to the texture of the gain itself.
 
Doesn't matter, same conclusion.
Check James Lugo's amp shootout in 2010.
All hi gain amps sound similar through the same cab.
 
Doesn't matter, same conclusion.
Check James Lugo's amp shootout in 2010.
All hi gain amps sound similar through the same cab.
 
yek said:
Doesn't matter, same conclusion.
Check James Lugo's amp shootout in 2010.
All hi gain amps sound similar through the same cab.
Click to expand...
Just checked it out. You're right ... they're almost identical.

So, presumably, it's the cab. How to decide to go with which cab, then?
 
I would give FR a shot but you will have to get used to the sound of a mic'd cab. You will start to hear the differences in the amp and speaker sims.
 
Just a thought but how do you set it up?

If you are not already, then maybe try using a drive in front of the amp as a gain stage?
In my experience there are a lot of options in that method of getting a high gain sound, since you have both drive and amp as variable.

I don't know what you are looking for so I might be completely off, but it might be something to mess around with untill you find an FRFR solution :)

Jens
 
Instead of using the 5150, try using the plexi, JCM 800, or Hiwatt with the master pushed up more and a drive in front of it. Also, changing the drive bias/type can make it better.
 
Jens said:
Just a thought but how do you set it up?

If you are not already, then maybe try using a drive in front of the amp as a gain stage?
In my experience there are a lot of options in that method of getting a high gain sound, since you have both drive and amp as variable.

I don't know what you are looking for so I might be completely off, but it might be something to mess around with untill you find an FRFR solution :)

Jens
Click to expand...
Well, I've tried driving the amps with a TS type, which I would normally do, but this doesn't completely change the gain character, which brings me to the next quote ...

Sammetal91 said:
Instead of using the 5150, try using the plexi, JCM 800, or Hiwatt with the master pushed up more and a drive in front of it. Also, changing the drive bias/type can make it better.
Click to expand...
Unacceptable. I should be able to use the 5150 model. The 5150 has one of my favorite drive tones. I've also already tried fiddling around with the master and have tried several drives in front of several amps. Drives are meant to push the amp into further saturation/drive and the character should be able to come from the amp (simulation).
 
DemolitionColorScheme said:
It might be time, yeah ... Are there FR 2x12 cabs or something? Where can I shop for one in Europe, I presume G66?
Click to expand...

FR is a different animal... try not to think of it in terms of guitar cab mentality but more like PA. The new Matrix offering which isn't available just yet or the RCF NX12 SMA which most here like.
 
Sixstring said:
FR is a different animal... try not to think of it in terms of guitar cab mentality but more like PA. The new Matrix offering which isn't available just yet or the RCF NX12 SMA which most here like.
Click to expand...
Well, in my case, it would be a cab. It would still be mic'd up at a gig. What else should I see it as? Okay, it has the full frequency range, but I still think of it as a guitar cabinet, because that's what I'm using it for.
 
My approach is kind of "in between". I'm using a guitar cab with an EVM 12L speaker, and a Matrix power amp.
That's a famous guitar speaker which is slighty flatter than other traditional guitar speakers and has a slightly extended high freq. range.
The EVM is used for clean as well has overdriven and higher gain tones.

Because of its specifications, the specific characters of the various amp models is better heard than through other guitar speakers.
it's still a guitar speaker though, not FRFR, although some users even enable cab sims when using an EVM.
Output2 on my Axe is used to feed the power amp and EVM cab.

I don't mic the speaker cab at gigs. I use Output 1 with cab sims switched on. The cab sim is an IR of the EVM. SImple and effective.
 
I'm in Leiden. So if you want to try things some time ...
 
yek said:
All hi gain amps sound similar through the same cab.
Click to expand...

definately not!
i got a Diezel Herbert and a Diezel Hagen at an Engl XXL 4x12 cab
and they sound totally different.
specially the new Hagen has another gain structure than the Herbert
that is rounder and smoother.

to my ears the gain structures in the axe sound the same.
they just differ a bit in the EQs. :roll
 
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