Looper pedals comparison

I had a EHX 2880 and it was the only looper i know that could really sync to midi clock, that was a major thing for me. It is a great unit with flexible features, sadly i had to sell it when i was saving for my Ultra.
 
Someone should make a little box that simulates an expression pedal sweeping a specified range in a specified time. Just set and click.
 
I found the iPhone version of the Riffbox. Although the concept looks pretty interesting, I'm not so sure if it's really what I want. I watched the Boomerang III and RC-50 videos on youtube and they're probably closer to my needs.
The RC-50 is available in local stores (at 150% of the price I'd pay on ebay), the Boomerang is not available here.
So there's no chance for me to compare before I buy.

What looks pretty interesting on the boomerang is that you can play part A & B, mark the split point and then switch between the two by pressing the designated loop footswitch. I've seen that the RC-50 has 3 loops, but since they only use pre-recorded material on the videos, it's hard to see if you could start recording, then press another loop switch and have only this second part on the second loop switch.

From the internet infos I have I can tell that that I like dislike:
Boomerang: smaller footprint
RC-50: MIDI
Sound quality???? -> probably Boomerang
XLR for mic in (Can you use a Mic with an XLR to jack on the Rang?) -> RC-50
Quantize -> RC-50
Ability to store loops -> RC-50

Obviously, there's people who have experienced latencies with the RC-50, which would be an absolute showstopper.
I checked the website yesterday, and it looks like the actual firmware is 1.01, so there hasn't been done much to improve the device software-wise and it's been on the market for quite a while.

So you see, it's hard for me to decide. I'd send Cliff a premium swiss chocolate candy bar if he'd improve the looper on my AFX Ultra with a firmware upgrade so that it would be able to compete with the RC-50 and the Rang III...

But while I'm waiting, could you guys please help me with your experiences concerning RC-50 vs. Rang III?
I'll use it mainly for acoustic gigs - probably without the AFX, so size is more an issue than MIDI. But I still want decent functionality.
 
multivir said:
What looks pretty interesting on the boomerang is that you can play part A & B, mark the split point and then switch between the two by pressing the designated loop footswitch. I've seen that the RC-50 has 3 loops, but since they only use pre-recorded material on the videos, it's hard to see if you could start recording, then press another loop switch and have only this second part on the second loop switch.

From the internet infos I have I can tell that that I like dislike:
Boomerang: smaller footprint
RC-50: MIDI
Sound quality???? -> probably Boomerang
XLR for mic in (Can you use a Mic with an XLR to jack on the Rang?) -> RC-50
Quantize -> RC-50
Ability to store loops -> RC-50

Obviously, there's people who have experienced latencies with the RC-50, which would be an absolute showstopper.
Click to expand...



I've had both and you hit the nail on the head. Except: I've only heard horror stories of trying to quantize with the RC-50, and I can attest to the RC-50 definitely having latency, whereas the boomerang has none.

You can definitely do what you described in the beginning on the RC-50, no problem.
 
JustinAiken said:
My Looper quest:
Boss RC-2
Jamman
Boss RC-20
EHX 2880
Looperlative
The last two have stereo and MIDI control... now if only there was a balanced XLR version of the Looperlative, I'd have absolute perfection..
Click to expand...

I've spent the last two years hopefully watching the looper pedal market, reading manuals and reviews, including all those mentioned in this thread.
I need reliable MIDI sync slave, stereo signal, non-volatile memory and lots of it preferably to memory cards so I can build a library, and functions like multiple tracks, overdub, undo, multiply track, for starters. I've been bitterly disappointed.
I was astounded that none of the new Digitech Jamman range released earlier this year had midi sync, what a squandered opportunity. :(

The Looperlative LP1 rack and the Looperlative LP2 pedal come closest to what I want. But...
The LP1 only has 4 minutes of volatile RAM.
And whilst the LP2 uses non-volatile memory cards it's mono.

Up until last month my rig was pedal based, and using a laptop was out of the question. But I discovered the Axe FX and after a couple of weeks reading the manual, scouring the forums, reviews, articles, etc. I bought an Ultra. :D

I didn't think I'd ever go rack but the Axe FX outstrips everything in a similar price bracket and ticks all the boxes. Since I pretty much need to purchase a laptop to manage the Axe, Adrenalinn 3 and Gordius Little Giant Module 2, I figure I may as well use Mobius on the laptop - it does everything I want and more.
Eventually when everything is finalised I'll fit it all into a portable rack, including the laptop.
My only complaint with using Mobius on a PC so far is my sound card has a quite a bit of latency even with ASIO4Free. I intend to get something like the E-mu 0404 which I understand is a lot better.
Eventually there may be a new Looperlative rack which might fit my requirements, in which case I'll save up and happily buy it. :cool:
-- G.
 
An aspect I haven´t seen mentioned here is tempo modification of loops in a looper. To me this is important very often (when the drummer doesn´t play to a click and you have to modify the tempo of your loops from time to time).
I have an M13 (can´t do it, only half-time/double-time), and a RC-50 (can do it by tapping in a new tempo it but sounds crappy when you alter the original tempo of your loop).

A good alternative for a looper IMO is Ableton Live. It features a looper, it is fully midi- controllable (though programming can be a bit complex) and has far superior time stretching algos compared to the RC-50. Only "disadvantage" is it´s not hardware. Bit it runs very stable on my Macbook Pro.
 
Yep, as the last two posters have pointed out, computers will give you everything you could want from a looper and more. The only problem is some of us don't want to give in and have to setup a laptop every gig.
 
GfromHarpOn said:
I need reliable MIDI sync slave, stereo signal, non-volatile memory and lots of it preferably to memory cards so I can build a library, and functions like multiple tracks, overdub, undo, multiply track, for starters. I've been bitterly disappointed.
-- G.
Click to expand...
Have you tried ableton live and controlled with a midi footswitch.

I was able to loop/play/stop ABC sections with a D fill section, and able to loop/play/stop about 3-4 tracks on top of any ABC, and able to select axe-fx presets along the way, AND, ableton records those to hard drive as well.

Not easy to set up, and I had to have the Gordius Little Giant footswitch remap several buttons on the fly, and the trial of ableton ran out. But I may save up and go that route down the road.
 
Although I don't use this solution, I think the laptop and s/w solution provides the best option on paper. Combining a laptop with a good interface (firewire like an RME 400 or similar) and a midi matrix (UM-550 or equal), running Mobius can deliver all of it. You can slave to midi track, create multiple parts, assign your midi devices, pedals, IA's to trigger almost any script or function in Mobius. The UM-550 allows all your midi devices to either be merged, routed or distributed without dicking with midi-in, midi-thru, and midi-out issues.

I think the issue is the reliability of the laptop OS - so maybe a Mac does it better the Windoze, but I am windows person with little Mac experience. After all, all these devices are s/w drive too, its just they live on a purpose built platform like the Sharc family of chips. You could buy something like the Muse Receptor to run the VSTs, the Softsynths and a cornucopia of other products, buts its price like the Axe-FX standard and Ultra. The main thing is this a purpose built machine. They say IF you get a hang, the total reboot time is 5 seconds, and it picks up where you left off. So your back in action in under 5 seconds.

So the Uber Rig would consist of: (own items in green)
Macbook Pro or Muse Receptor - loaded with Mobius, a decent soft synth, and other fun VSTs (or the mac equivalent)
RME FF800 (IO w/ Midi)
UM880 (mid matrix)
Axon MK 100 for midi to the synths
Axe-FX Ultra
MFC-101 w/ expansion IA
4 Mission pedals (own 2)

I takes a time to setup and manage this much gear, even if it's all analog hardware, but you do get a very flexible system without limitations. And its very compact considering everything listed. I think you could get it into two 3RU cases. But I will say that rig described above is gonna run you about $8K.
 
Wow, this topic really seems to be something that a lot of you guys have thought of.

I finally got to a conclusion. After posting & reading on the Ultra forum - I must admit I was hoping that there would be an upgrade for the looper anytime soon - I found that Cliff posted that the Axe looper is just a small feature and is not meant to compete with a "real" looper.

After playing around with Mobius for 5 minutes I decided that I definitely want a piece of hardware that doesn't rely on too many factors (soundcard, OS) other than good cables and DC power. So today I pulled the trigger...

I finally decided to go for a Boomerang III. Mainly for the good reviews about sound quality & reliability.
The RC-50 seemed a bit too big for me and although the Jamman has a nice set of features and SD Card recording, I don't think that I'll ever use that and rather prefer to be able to have two or more different loops accessible at the same time.

The company seems to be a little slow when it comes to website updates, as they don't mention the V2 update that MotherSea already received. But the concept how to use it seems understandable to me - they have a nice youtube video.

I'll use it mostly for my acoustic gigs, together with my VoiceLive2. I kept my old pedalboard and tried to operate the VL2 next to the pedalboard. There's a physical limit to these things (at least if you still want to look cool while playing :mrgreen: and you're neither ballet dancer or kung fu fighter. :oops: )
So I think the VL2 and the Boomerang will just do fine. I hope that they release another software update soon that makes it midi remote-controllable. This way I could integrate the Axe (which I use for slight EQing, Delay, Reverb and Chorus for my acoustic sometimes), the VL2 and the Rang into one Rig controlled by my Gordius LG2. - Gearhead extravaganza...!

I know that the RC-50 has MIDI, but it was just too big to carry and so far I had my AxeFX in a Gator 2HE rack bag (and I'd like to keep my rig small).
 
Good choice. There is little point to the MIDI capabilities of the RC-50 IMO, since its MIDI-sync simply doesn't work in any practical way.
 
solo-act said:
GfromHarpOn said:
I need reliable MIDI sync slave, stereo signal, non-volatile memory and lots of it preferably to memory cards so I can build a library, and functions like multiple tracks, overdub, undo, multiply track, for starters. I've been bitterly disappointed.
-- G.
Click to expand...
Have you tried ableton live and controlled with a midi footswitch.

I was able to loop/play/stop ABC sections with a D fill section, and able to loop/play/stop about 3-4 tracks on top of any ABC, and able to select axe-fx presets along the way, AND, ableton records those to hard drive as well.

Not easy to set up, and I had to have the Gordius Little Giant footswitch remap several buttons on the fly, and the trial of ableton ran out. But I may save up and go that route down the road.
Click to expand...

Hi there
Nope. I'm pretty new to looping software. Mobius is free and based on the EDP which is rated highly by most loopers-delight members, so I thought I'd start with that. Mobius is very easy to program MIDI commands, the trick is learning about and understanding all the features. I've only been using it for a few weeks.
If I find I need more I may looking into Ableton Live. I know it's meant to be really good and I have a friend who uses and loves it.
Little Giant is a pretty powerful piece of gear.
-- G.
 
I'm really surprised no one's mentioned the Echoplex Digital Pro.I've had one since Oberheim came out with it 12 or 13 years ago.It is still considered by many to be the standard to which all others are compared.Gibson's putting them out now.There's a lot here, more than I've ever had the patience to figure out.I've been doing a bit of research lately and there are clearly better machines for saving loops-there's no storage capability with the EDP,and no direct way to save loops to a computer.(Maybe with the newer Gibson models,but I don't know for sure.)As for creating loops and layers,it has been an awesome performance tool.Still,it's a lot of work for someone like me who doesn't speak Tech-manualese very well.I had the Boss RC-50 for a short while,but it was another learning curve I hadn't the patience for.I'm looking pretty hard at the Jam Man.Being able to store loops and download samples into it are very attractive to me.And the price is pretty sweet.
 
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