Looper Pedal for Playing Live?

LerxstFan

LerxstFan

Inspired
Since our female lead singer/keyboard player is moving on, my band is going to start playing out as a trio. I still want us to sound full as a three piece. Does anyone use a looper pedal during gigs that you would recommend? I have tried the built in looper in my Axe III, but have seen a lot of looper pedals that could fit the bill, a few by Roland, that don't look too complex. I'm just looking to have some rhthym parts playing under solos and have the ability to layer a part or two.

I'd be grateful for any recommendations folks can share. Thank you!
 
LerxstFan said:
Since our female lead singer/keyboard player is moving on, my band is going to start playing out as a trio. I still want us to sound full as a three piece. Does anyone use a looper pedal during gigs that you would recommend? I have tried the built in looper in my Axe III, but have seen a lot of looper pedals that could fit the bill, a few by Roland, that don't look too complex. I'm just looking to have some rhthym parts playing under solos and have the ability to layer a part or two.

I'd be grateful for any recommendations folks can share. Thank you!
Click to expand...
I use synths effects to embellish or fill up the space. Works nicely. I have also tried the hold function but the ‘hold sound’ does not sound like a guitar. The looper I find hard to work with live. Mostly because my presses aren’t spot on or something like that. I am waiting for a product ( hopefully fas) that can make a hold sound that is basicly your guitar sound sustaining so you can noodle over that. @fremen has a pack with synths and drones. Maybe that can help you. I played livin on a prayer in a three piece band and I had a button per synth chord for the intro and some other moments in the song. Really raised some eyebrows and got being accused of using backing tracks. Nice compliment to get.
 
Hello @LerxstFan;

First off, Andre LaFosse is an indispensable resource for all things looping. Check out his amazing YouTube channel with very in-depth discussions of loop pedals:
https://www.youtube.com/@andrelafosse

Secondly, all the real innovation in looping is happening in software. Looping pedals are great, but not many allow individual loops of differing length, quantization, individual manipulation of loops, etc...
If your gigging rig can accommodate it, I'd suggest going the software route. For example, Ableton is really just a multi-track looper. There are also a number of amazing looper plugins:
  1. Ableton's stock looper
  2. Enso
  3. Logelloop
  4. LoopyPro
  5. If you're running Ableton, you can learn Max/MSP and literally build your own looper bespoke to your own needs.
  6. Augustus Loop
  7. Meringue
  8. I'm sure there are lots more...
 
I'm with Matt on this one - I would think more in the direction of a drummer using a click track and backing tracks (that you record so it's still you playing) synced to that. Seems a lot less stressful than trying to make sure a looper is exactly timed with the drummer. I've tried it before and was majorly unsuccessful. lol!
 
Thats all great info - Thank you! I am concerned about timing and keeping things tight. My biggest concern, lol. I never thought about recording my own backing tracks…more to check out beyond the pedal and software option.
 
I use the Axe-Fx looper on one song* but when I've tried to use it to play rhythm guitar under my leads on other songs I've never been able to get the timing just right.

*The one song I use it on (Sirius/Eye in the Sky) has the sequencer playing both synth blocks, and the looper is quantized to that tempo. I run a separate output of just the synth/sequencer to the drummer's in-ear monitor mix, and in essence that's the click track. He has a tablet where he can turn that channel down in his monitor mix later in the song when it's no longer needed, but he typically leaves it running the whole time just to keep the tempo steady. I use the looper in three separate sections of Sirius, and in one of those sections I start with a rhythm guitar part, stack another rhythm guitar part, and then stack 4 or 5 lead parts over that...all while the synth/sequencer is running. It's a ton of sound coming from one guitarist. I call it The Fractal Show, lol.
 
I use a looper when playing with a singer in a jazz duo. With a drummer it would probably be more challenging though. Especially with more groovy stuff it with probably be very hard to get the timing accurate enough.

I have seen people use loopers with drummers, but it's more risky in some styles of music than others.
Here's an example of Wolfgang Muthspiel with Brian Blade on drums using a looper. No issues there, but it is a more free groove than most pop/rock types of music, and having more than two in the group would probably cause more issues with timing with the looper.

 
Harm said:
I use synths effects to embellish or fill up the space. Works nicely. I have also tried the hold function but the ‘hold sound’ does not sound like a guitar. The looper I find hard to work with live. Mostly because my presses aren’t spot on or something like that. I am waiting for a product ( hopefully fas) that can make a hold sound that is basicly your guitar sound sustaining so you can noodle over that.
Click to expand...
Gamechanger Audio.
https://gamechangeraudio.com/pluspedal/
 
From your description of your band, I'm going to guess that something like the Plus Pedal or an EHX SuperEgo might be a better fit than a looper for a couple of reasons. First, you have to have a very disciplined rhythm section to lock into a looper (or a click or tracks) and essentially give up control of the pulse; it just takes a different performative mindset working with an unyielding addition to the rhythm. Many say they can/will, but fall off the loop at the first big fill they throw in. Second (as discussed above), it's much more helpful to have an audible click or dedicated channel for the loop, which means more routing than just having a looper in your signal chain.

So a device that creates a pad of sound (whether Plus Pedal, SuperEgo, or Axe patch) helps overcome the rhythmic pulse issue. You could even treat the looper as a non-rhythmic device to extent. But all of this also requires rearrangement on your part as to how you establish and "update" these pads throughout the song. If you're doing covers with specific parts played underneath a guitar solo, this may not be the solution you want though.

Ableton + MAX/MSP has all the capabilities you would want to pull this off, but will require a significant amount of time invested into the system itself, and any tracks you want to prerecord. But one super-cool thing that many don't know about: there are some programmers working on MAX/MSP setups that listen to incoming audio and adjust both tempo and song positioning of Live tracks. A few former colleagues of mine work in the contemporary classical scene doing this exact thing: MAX/MSP is "listening" to a chamber ensemble and identifying what is happening in the piece (often involving lots of polyrhythmic and non-cyclical sounds) and adjusting the electronic/synthesized/prerecorded playback to follow along with the live performers. But you have to be really invested in the idea.

Sometimes a new band member is the easiest solution.
 
I looked at the Plus Pedal and have not used Ableton, which seems like a steep learning curve to me. Finding a new band member seems daunting since our chemistry is good, and the drummer and bass player are solid. I may be overthinking it. I have been in bands with keyboard players for many years and am so used to having that mid-range instrument rounding out the sound. I don't want to make us Rush, we are mere mortals in a cover band, lol, but the idea and tech is worth exploring. Thank you again for the ideas!
 
^^^ so very true.

Back in the “touring dark ages” I worked on one of the first tours where the (über-extensive) audio/video playback support tracked the kick drum as the controller for the whole shebang. At the time it was considered revolutionary — now “live drive” of A/V is so commonplace it’s doesn’t get a second thought.
 
Speaking of software, there is also Quantiloop for iPad. I use it connected to the FM3 via the Camera Connection Kit. It works great!
 
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