Looking for advice on working with effects

Chas

Chas

Member
What is your approach to adding effects and working with them in a preset? Do you just add the effect and take the simplest approach in tweaking parameters (changing nothing or very little) or do you find that you really need to tweak the heck out of them to get the sound you want? Unfortunately, I don't have a lifetime of experience in using effects as some of you do so I'm still trying to grasp why I would choose "this type of chorus" or "that type of delay" and what I would change in their individual parameters and why. I feel like I have the signal chain down pretty good but there are SOOO many effects options and options within each effect in the Axe-FX III that it gets a little daunting, almost like I'm afraid to change something and screw it up. Understanding the functions of the parameters is definitely part of the problem. I wish there was a course you could take that went through the effects breaking down why you would pick a certain type of effect and how to tweak it to get specific sounds.

I've played guitar for around 10 years or so and I have played a lot of gigs with our band using a JP-2C and pedalboard (eventually an FX8), so I feel like I've got enough experience that if I can get over this hurdle, I will really grow as a player. I'm amazed by so many of you guys and your ability to create incredible tones and it's a real blessing to borrow shared presets, but I'd really like to be able to build a great preset from the ground up as many of you do. Any advice you have is appreciated!
 
Just audition the types in the effect you want to use and choose the one that fits your idea best. Tweak further from there if you need to.

No need to overthink it - once you're happy with it, hit save and play. Revisit later if need be.

Also, read the manual. There's a lot in there.
 
Chas said:
Do you just add the effect and take the simplest approach in tweaking parameters (changing nothing or very little) or do you find that you really need to tweak the heck out of them to get the sound you want?
Click to expand...
Well, yes and yes. (sorry, not trying to be snarky)

It's just that there's no one answer... if you drop in a chorus block and it sounds good, then you're done. If it's not, then you'll want to tweak or possibly try a different default (i.e. maybe "stereo chorus" instead of "analog mono" etc). The good thing is you can't break anything; start simple and play around with the knobs. Since you're used to stomp boxes etc, just ignore all of the other controls - don't feel that you need to tweak everything just because it's there. Most people can get the sound they want just using the standard controls (on a chorus: depth, speed/rate, maybe mix... on a delay: tempo, feedback, mix). You'll get used to it pretty quick.
 
My approach is driven by my desire to limit the number of decisions that I have to make when playing. So I have five patches because that’s the number of patch buttons across the top row of my MFC: Clean, Edgy, Overdriven, Crunchy, and Acoustic. I choose these between songs. All of the effects are kicked in by IA, and it’s the same button for the same effect in every patch. Now the effect settings might differ between patches. So Chorus in the Crunchy patch might be Dimension 1, but in the Clean patch it is something else.

So to answer your question, I choose the best compromise for that patch. Which means that Message in a Bottle has the same Chorus as Brass In Pocket. Yes, I could match the sound to the original, but them I’d have one patch per song. With a 100 song repertoire, and a singer who deviates from the set list to suit the audience, that’s not practical. So I compromise.

Less is more.
 
Put the block, change the types. Use any controls you know, basics like rate, depth, drive, etc where appropriate.
 
I feel you, it is easy to get choice anxiety with such a large array of options.

I think you’re operating from a place of “what is correct” or “what SHOULD I tweak”, when there is no reason to tweak anything if you don’t want to. Just like the amps, many of us never touch the advanced parameters, I don’t even know what most of them do.

The way I did it was to setup a simple preset with a looper up front, then drop an effect in and change to each type while the loop is playing. So for chorus, just listen to each type of chorus. You’ll hear some you like and some you don’t, and your taste will be different to other people’s’ ideas.

As for the parameters, once you’ve found an effect you like, research how to dial in the actual pedal version, eg rate and depth for chorus, and don’t worry about the advanced stuff.
 
I have found that "major" (full number) FM revisions often include a significant overhaul of certain effects, or the additional of new ones. I like to experiment with the updated effects just to see if they add a little something that I was missing before. Case in point, when the rotary block was overhauled in an earlier FW version, I decided to use it instead of chorus for all my of my presets. Same for the distortions, which seem to just keep better and better; I sometimes wind up swapping out a favorite lead amp head for a clean tone + updated distortion (or vice versa). If there's a recommendation from me, it's to find good staring points and build presets that sound good to you, and occasionally experiment, doing some A/B testing to notice any inspiring new sounds.
 
Knowing how each parameter affects the tone or sound will go a long way to getting what you want quicker. For specific tones, a quick google search of the rig of the player or band whose tone you're trying to emulate will take a lot of guesswork out of the necessary effects. You'll often find specific settings for effects and/or tonal philosophies as well.
 
jefferski said:
Well, yes and yes. (sorry, not trying to be snarky)

It's just that there's no one answer... if you drop in a chorus block and it sounds good, then you're done. If it's not, then you'll want to tweak or possibly try a different default (i.e. maybe "stereo chorus" instead of "analog mono" etc). The good thing is you can't break anything; start simple and play around with the knobs. Since you're used to stomp boxes etc, just ignore all of the other controls - don't feel that you need to tweak everything just because it's there. Most people can get the sound they want just using the standard controls (on a chorus: depth, speed/rate, maybe mix... on a delay: tempo, feedback, mix). You'll get used to it pretty quick.
Click to expand...


Good info. This has pretty much been the approach I've taken so far. Just tweak the controls I'm familiar with and leave the rest alone. Just so many other parameters that I wondered if I was missing something. Thanks for your reply!
 
Roland said:
My approach is driven by my desire to limit the number of decisions that I have to make when playing. So I have five patches because that’s the number of patch buttons across the top row of my MFC: Clean, Edgy, Overdriven, Crunchy, and Acoustic. I choose these between songs. All of the effects are kicked in by IA, and it’s the same button for the same effect in every patch. Now the effect settings might differ between patches. So Chorus in the Crunchy patch might be Dimension 1, but in the Clean patch it is something else.

So to answer your question, I choose the best compromise for that patch. Which means that Message in a Bottle has the same Chorus as Brass In Pocket. Yes, I could match the sound to the original, but them I’d have one patch per song. With a 100 song repertoire, and a singer who deviates from the set list to suit the audience, that’s not practical. So I compromise.

Less is more.
Click to expand...


I can definitely see how this makes sense for a live gig, almost like having the simplicity of a pedalboard set up.
 
tysonlt said:
I feel you, it is easy to get choice anxiety with such a large array of options.

I think you’re operating from a place of “what is correct” or “what SHOULD I tweak”, when there is no reason to tweak anything if you don’t want to. Just like the amps, many of us never touch the advanced parameters, I don’t even know what most of them do.

The way I did it was to setup a simple preset with a looper up front, then drop an effect in and change to each type while the loop is playing. So for chorus, just listen to each type of chorus. You’ll hear some you like and some you don’t, and your taste will be different to other people’s’ ideas.

As for the parameters, once you’ve found an effect you like, research how to dial in the actual pedal version, eg rate and depth for chorus, and don’t worry about the advanced stuff.
Click to expand...

I had a similar feeling with the amp models, but for some reason, I'm more comfortable messing with those. I'll start working with the looper more as you mentioned and I bet that will help. Thanks!
 
Sleestak said:
I have found that "major" (full number) FM revisions often include a significant overhaul of certain effects, or the additional of new ones. I like to experiment with the updated effects just to see if they add a little something that I was missing before. Case in point, when the rotary block was overhauled in an earlier FW version, I decided to use it instead of chorus for all my of my presets. Same for the distortions, which seem to just keep better and better; I sometimes wind up swapping out a favorite lead amp head for a clean tone + updated distortion (or vice versa). If there's a recommendation from me, it's to find good staring points and build presets that sound good to you, and occasionally experiment, doing some A/B testing to notice any inspiring new sounds.
Click to expand...

With the firmware revisions, is it changing the effect so much that you find yourself having to relearn the effect all over again, or is it generally the same with a few minor changes? It seems like I find that some of the presets I've used that were built in older FW versions have changed so much that they just don't sound that great anymore and need to be either rebuilt or significantly altered. Is that just the nature of the beast?
 
As far as old presets sometimes needing to be polished up after an effect was redone in a new firmware: That is just the nature of the beast with Fractal. Other companies focus on never breaking/changing an existing preset or model, but that also means they can't ever improve their effects/existing models. It's a trade-off, with fractal you get regular and constant improvements to everything, but you sometimes pay the price by having to re-tweak your patches when an update changes them all.

As for learning the effects, at some level the answer is just to learn them a little better. And there are several ways to do that. You could just create a patch, and play with the blocks one at a time. Take a chorus, put it in front of a clean amp, a dirty amp, behind a dirty amp, switch the chorus types, tweak parameters and try and hear what is different. All the different choruses are still just a chorus,will work and sound similarly but with different flavors based on different real pedals or approaches to making the effect. Some other blocks are more like a collection of effects you'll have to learn separately.

Or the manual has info on each with explanations of the parameters. Or Leon's videos are great for quick or deep dives into specific blocks as a starting point.

Or any video or online guide to any general effect will usually apply to the Axe FX models as well. Just most pedals don't expose all the different things you can tweak at once, usually they just have a few they chose.

But you can't break anything, the worst you can do it make something sound bad. Or maybe find a bug, but if so just report it so it can be fixed.
 
But you can also just go back to a previous firmware if you dont like what the updates do for you personally.

There's no law saying you have to be fully up to date.
 
IronSean said:
As far as old presets sometimes needing to be polished up after an effect was redone in a new firmware: That is just the nature of the beast with Fractal. Other companies focus on never breaking/changing an existing preset or model, but that also means they can't ever improve their effects/existing models. It's a trade-off, with fractal you get regular and constant improvements to everything, but you sometimes pay the price by having to re-tweak your patches when an update changes them all.

As for learning the effects, at some level the answer is just to learn them a little better. And there are several ways to do that. You could just create a patch, and play with the blocks one at a time. Take a chorus, put it in front of a clean amp, a dirty amp, behind a dirty amp, switch the chorus types, tweak parameters and try and hear what is different. All the different choruses are still just a chorus,will work and sound similarly but with different flavors based on different real pedals or approaches to making the effect. Some other blocks are more like a collection of effects you'll have to learn separately.

Or the manual has info on each with explanations of the parameters. Or Leon's videos are great for quick or deep dives into specific blocks as a starting point.

Or any video or online guide to any general effect will usually apply to the Axe FX models as well. Just most pedals don't expose all the different things you can tweak at once, usually they just have a few they chose.

But you can't break anything, the worst you can do it make something sound bad. Or maybe find a bug, but if so just report it so it can be fixed.
Click to expand...


Thanks, this makes perfect sense and yes, I would prefer to have regular updates to the FW and retweak as needed. It's a great machine, just gonna have to spend a lot more time figuring it out. I've been using Leon's and Cooper's videos to ramp up and that is helping a lot. It does seem that overall everyone is encouraging a simpler approach so that's what I'll do for now. I appreciate the feedback.
 
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