Light and Shadows - Something I did

Did you HEAR the last thing I did? Double stops.

Crowd pleasers is diametrically opposed to what I'm trying to do. What I'm doing is stream of consciousness playing. There is absolutely nothing pre-arrneged or preconceived or pre-contrived. The point is playing human thought and impressions as they happen. My music tends to be crowd pleasing, to a certain extent. I have some tunes that have never failed to get people up and applauding at the end. Not dancing mind you. A song called Samahdi In Malwai from my first album ALWAYS got a standing ovation, without fail, when or wherever we played it.But my PLAYING is left alone in that regard. I play what I feel. I hope to impress but thats not the goal. The goal is thought. And when I'm in the zone, it generally happens.

BTW I do and have play in many bands and have been considered a crowd pleaser. But no, I don't have a bag of licks to pull out that promises to get people up off their feet. You're talking cliches and I try to be devoid of them as much as possible. I'm not interested in those things. Charles Mingus taught me to play my own shit, even if it stinks. You're talking preconceived things, like bends and double stops. But improvisation, at least the way I try to do it, isn't about those things. It happens or it doesn't. None of the solos are written or preconceived, in anyway. That's the ART of it.

So the piece you heard, was it just me playing guitar or was there an actual band? The fact that you call jazz improvisation "noodling" clues me in to the fact that you don't understand the form, which is fine, but you're missing the point. It's not Carlton, or Ford, or Gilbert, or Satch. None of those guys. I'm doing something much different. Think Scofield with a touch of Adam Rogers and Nguyen Le. But much different than any of those guys. I'm just talking aesthetic. It's not rock in anyway shape or form. The jazz audience listens to the soloist tell a story. Its never considered noodling, unless it really and truly is. Coltrane, Jarrett, Corea, Miles, Sonny Rollins didn't "noodle." But to the untrained or uninitiated it sounds like they're just wanking. Or maybe their noodling was art, which is the goal in jazz.

One thing that sticks in my craw - " I like your playing in many ways and it might start moving me if you incorporated some of the stuff I *did* suggest." I'm not here for lessons. I haven't taken lessons since I was in college, and that was ages ago. I'm not here to please you. I was just sharing. I didn't ask anyone for their advice on how I can play better. Sorry, but nobody tells me that, unless I ask them directly. Music is not just something I do, for a living; it's who I am. My playing is a reflection of who I am. I've worked very hard for 40 some years to do what I do. Very hard and I've been very dedicated and moderately successful. I'm here to share, not seek advice. I'm not a all interested in discovering ways to move you. Either you're moved or not.

I happen to really, really like this piece. I'm surprised no one else does. But that doesn't bother me too much. The Fractal forum is apparently not my demographic. I've always marched to my own drummer and I'm happy to do so. One of the labels I was signed to tried to change me and define me based on other silly things like the color of my skin. Nope. I'm not going that way. No one tells me what to play, ever. I'm proud that in so doing I've been able to make a living out of 'not pleasing crowds.'
 
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for the record.. i didn't listen to the composition until just now. (my i-pad conflicted with the MIME video format or some weirdness; i'm on my desktop now)

i thought everything about it kicked ass. loved it.

hope that's OK.
 
henryrobinett said:
One thing that sticks in my craw - " I like your playing in many ways and it might start moving me if you incorporated some of the stuff I *did* suggest." I'm not here for lessons. I haven't taken lessons since I was in college, and that was ages ago. I'm not here to please you. I was just sharing. I didn't ask anyone for their advice on how I can play better. Sorry, but nobody tells me that, unless I ask them directly. Music is not just something I do, for a living; it's who I am. My playing is a reflection of who I am. I've worked very hard for 40 some years to do what I do. Very hard and I've been very dedicated and moderately successful. I'm here to share, not seek advice. I'm not a all interested in discovering ways to move you. Either you're moved or not.

I happen to really, really like this piece. I'm surprised no one else does. But that doesn't bother me too much. The Fractal forum is apparently not my demographic. I've always marched to my own drummer and I'm happy to do so. One of the labels I was signed to tried to change me and define me based on other silly things like the color of my skin. Nope. I'm not going that way. No one tells me what to play, ever. I'm proud that in so doing I've been able to make a living out of 'not pleasing crowds.'
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Henry, I agreed with the first half of your post, but the 'sorry, but nobody tells me that' sounds FAR more aggressive than the criticism that was directed towards you. As for me, no, I wouldn't take kindly to someone saying they didn't like my stuff - as you say, a generalization is not too useful. But the poster DID make specific suggestions. You and I philosophically agree that those suggestions are not germane (i.e. 'tricks' and ther art of solos are two different things), but I WELCOME anyone offering specific criticisms. If you post up here, someone may say something you don't like. It's not worth getting worked up over (yes, yer craw's got something in it - you're worked up). I am always ready to be 'schooled'. I've played for many years. I (hopefully) don't sound too much like anyone else. But I am always open to a growth opportunity. I am not above being taught - and I don't know why you would be. You told me you want to learn forever, as much as possible, so it's possible that someone on this forum will offer advice that bugs you at first, but after your craw has become unstuck again, may actually prove to be useful. An old Taoist saying is that the change we need is rarely ever the change we want (invented by an old Taoist - me).

Now, I'm gonna post some stuff up here soon. It's primitive and simple and has no high speed runs, and no fretboard gymnastics. I presume some folks will not only hate it, but lose all respect for me as a musician. So be it.
 
And, I'd also add, that your reaction to his views on Equalizationa and balance were pretty forceful too - so foreceul that I and many others may not feel like giving you that type of constructive criticism. All in all, I think your defenses were triggered - a past-based trigger that had little to do with the poster here.
 
Well I'd like to admit to being defensive - but I didn't mind, contrary to what you may perceive, his criticism of EQ balance. You're talking about the bass? I merely stated my opinion on that matter. I do happen to be a mixing engineer and a mastering engineer. I don't get it right all the time. But fercrissakes. It's not a CD! It's a moment to share of something I had JUST GOTTEN FINISHED PLAYING. It wasn't even a mix.

I ONLY objected to the harsh way he stated he didn't like my playing. I've worked with producers and engineers who had session cats come in. We worked with them and tried to cajole performances. But no one EVER said, "Hey mate, I just don't like your playing." Sometimes we let them go with encouraging words. Sometimes I was the one who was let go. Saying, I don't like your playing" is something that in my neck of the woods is just not done.

I say what I say and put music up there to show that either I know what I'm talking about or I'm full of shit. I'm not JUST full of hot air. :) But it's way to easy on forums like this to pontificate and hide behind a mantle of superiority, yet never taking the chance of sharing or just putting yourself out there. Putting myself out there is what I do. Its what I've always done. And you may get attacked from time to time. But if I am attacked I attack back, if it's bullshit. Sorry but there's no way I could see a comment like that as not being an attack.

He said he thought the bass was too loud. Great. I disagreed. It was designed to have an overly present bass. I don't have to agree with criticism, or do I?

And sorry - nobody DOES tell me or schools me in how to play. I've been playing professionally for over 40 years. No one has ever schooled me whether I'm playing with Bobby Hutcherson or Randy Brecker or Shawn Lane or any of the great musicians I've played with. I'm not in it for that. I school myself. Sorry if it sounds aggressive, but it just happens to be so. You can give me specific tips, like why don't you bend more? Your timing was a bit off there, or why don't you try a different patch, less dirty. Those are all cool and germane. But to say, "I don't like your playing? That's total bullshit. Sorry.
 
Henry, I have great respect for your posts and your playing. I don't think vAmp was trying to offend you intentionally. It did not come across as condescending to me and I actually viewed it as constructive criticism. Everyone has different tastes and styles, so I wouldn't get too worked up about whether one person on the internet likes or dislikes something you do. You have a lot of fans here so keep doing what you're doing. And more importantly, as long as it makes YOU happy, that's all that matters.

For the record, I haven't listened to this piece yet because the video does not show up in IE 8 for some reason.
 
Webb said:
Henry, I have great respect for your posts and your playing. I don't think vAmp was trying to offend you intentionally. It did not come across as condescending to me and I actually viewed it as constructive criticism. Everyone has different tastes and styles, so I wouldn't get too worked up about whether one person on the internet likes or dislikes something you do. You have a lot of fans here so keep doing what you're doing. And more importantly, as long as it makes YOU happy, that's all that matters.

For the record, I haven't listened to this piece yet because the video does not show up in IE 8 for some reason.
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I haven't listened to it either (at work) - but I echo all sentiments here. I do not believe the intent was to either condescend or insult.
 
You're talking preconceived things, like bends and double stops. But improvisation, at least the way I try to do it, isn't about those things. It happens or it doesn't.
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IMO, these are an important part of the vocabulary and you're putting people on a diet without them. Everything has its place. And like they say: clichés are clichés because they sound so good or bring a familiar excitement others can hook onto. AFAIK, about all legends are making use of clichés. It's not something to play exclusively, but to spice it up a little and have your playing be more hospitable (and exciting, if still needed and used at the right time). They often sound pretty awesome as well!
If you're not taking advantage of what guitar strings have to offer expression wise, why not play the piano?

The fact that you call jazz improvisation "noodling" clues me in to the fact that you don't understand the form, which is fine, but you're missing the point.
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You're analyzing it wrong again... I've been into "jazz above all else" for quite some years from age 16 (that's 30 years ago). Noodling to me is when there is no clear tune, purpose or excitement build-up happening and the playing (therefore) can feel somewhat longish. Both things I've heard from you are high-level noodling to me [which is ok, because it's high-level and you warned us it's not a CD].

Its never considered noodling, unless it really and truly is. Coltrane, Jarrett, Corea, Miles, Sonny Rollins didn't "noodle."
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Maybe it's the language barrier or you projecting negative thoughts into anything you can, but for me noodling doesn't have to be negative. I could be inspired from guys noodling all day long, maybe even more so than their CDs, because they let go.

I didn't ask anyone for their advice on how I can play better.
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I'm not in a place to tell you that, but as any human, I *am* in a place to suggest what you could consider to move others more and easily improve yourself, if you should want to. You told that if you ever commented on someone's playing, you were at least offering tips, as if I didn't?? I just told you I *did* add these suggestions (and in a general way - I didn't intend to say that *you* didn't play *any* of my suggestions, like double stops, etc. But generally, that didn't seem so.)

I'm not a all interested in discovering ways to move you. Either you're moved or not.
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That's becoming clear. Maybe it's an aspect you've given up on? Just know that if one person is not moved, probably many others won't be either. But ok, the same goes for me. If people want me to move them by playing more henryrobinett-isms, I probably won't / couldn't either.

I'm proud that in so doing I've been able to make a living out of 'not pleasing crowds.'
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For me there's a difference with "exciting crowds", which is what I mean. It's not about some guy who would do anything to please a crowd. The Luke and Metheny solos I talked about don't sound to me that way at all. They just know how to build a solo, where all I suggested has its place. If not, you're putting the listener on a diet and the musicality of just your "story w/o anything else" would have to be godly, maybe like Metheny or Keith Jarrett.

But fercrissakes. It's not a CD!
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Still wondering what you *would* welcome comments on, if the EQ thing alone is such a big deal already?

I ONLY objected to the harsh way he stated he didn't like my playing.
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You're still imagining that... Pretty tiresome you *are*...! :D
"Not attracted" doesn't translate to "bad" in my book. It's more a "meh..." thing. Just not my taste, too little features, or just not ready for you yet (inspite of my early jazz schoolings) in these particular instances. Who knows you would floor me with some other stuff.
You've asked for comments on this particular thing, while you didn't really want them (besides "Great!!!") and you consider any specific comment as a general critique to all you're about...

But to say, "I don't like your playing? That's total bullshit. Sorry.
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Never said that. Maybe twice on the contrary... *yawn* :mrgreen
I've also never been condescending, on the contrary. Your playing should definitely exist :D and may be a rich source of inspiration for ppl that are tired of any cliché and think like you.
I would sooner suggest that you can come off as somewhat condescending to e.g. anyone who likes tone. There are still people that can't tell if you're playing off the beat, but more will be struck by tone, so it's about n°1 in most books if we can help it. To place yourself repeatedly above that, is somewhat condescending to me. I do think it's great you have an easy time enjoying music beyond tone. I just think the opportunity should not be missed to sound great at the same time, if in any way possible. It kinda reinforces my idea of you thinking of music maybe more theoretical than passionate (although you show the passion, which is why I would stay a while; but then I would like to hear it more in the playing (by my meagre standards)).
 
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