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LF+ JR+ - Need a basic guide

Tone_Loc

Member
Can someone please give me a basic explanation of what are "songs" and "setlists", inparticular on how they would be used in a live situation?
The FAMC site is woefully inadequate in explaining it. Their videos go into far too much detail on how to access and navigate the menus etc. and I've gotton no joy from emails.

Apparently Ive been told to "rethink" my programming approach! (I still dont understand when you map a patch from your Axe FX to a preset slot on LF, why this doesnt simply become a like for like preset on the LF? ie.patch 4 mapped to preset 4 is ALWAYS patch 4 and not the 4th preset of that bank) why bother mapping it to begin with?!?!

I have a miriad of follow up questions but I really need to get my head around this basic logic first.

TIA
 

voes

Fractal Fanatic
Vendor
Can someone please give me a basic explanation of what are "songs" and "setlists", inparticular on how they would be used in a live situation?
The FAMC site is woefully inadequate in explaining it. Their videos go into far too much detail on how to access and navigate the menus etc. and I've gotton no joy from emails.

Apparently Ive been told to "rethink" my programming approach! (I still dont understand when you map a patch from your Axe FX to a preset slot on LF, why this doesnt simply become a like for like preset on the LF? ie.patch 4 mapped to preset 4 is ALWAYS patch 4 and not the 4th preset of that bank) why bother mapping it to begin with?!?!

I have a miriad of follow up questions but I really need to get my head around this basic logic first.

TIA
songs and setlists is not something that's exclusive for the LF+. AFAIK you can find them in most midi-controllers, included the MFC-101

the use of it is simple: for every song you program all the presets you need (verse, bridge, chorus, solo,...). the benefit of this approach is that you can reuse presets and you don't need to program your presets in order you gonna use them.

I don't use midi-controllers this way. my approach is "pedalboard". I use only 6 presets from fender clean to soldano lead and all other buttons are IA's for turning on/off fx-blocks.
this way I have the freedom to choose whenever and whatever I want.
that's the main reason I want as much buttons as possible (I have a LF Pro and waiting for the LF+Pro+)
 

thekonas

Inspired
Concur,
An easy how to guide will push me in the LF direction.... but FAS has such good customer service!
 

redbud

Inspired
I own the jr+ and find that it did have a small learning curve. after getting it down it is very easy to program. I use preset mode and use a button to flip pages to access drives and effects. works like a charm. keep trying it is worth the effort
 

Tone_Loc

Member
songs and setlists is not something that's exclusive for the LF+. AFAIK you can find them in most midi-controllers, included the MFC-101

the use of it is simple: for every song you program all the presets you need (verse, bridge, chorus, solo,...). the benefit of this approach is that you can reuse presets and you don't need to program your presets in order you gonna use them.

I don't use midi-controllers this way. my approach is "pedalboard". I use only 6 presets from fender clean to soldano lead and all other buttons are IA's for turning on/off fx-blocks.
this way I have the freedom to choose whenever and whatever I want.
that's the main reason I want as much buttons as possible (I have a LF Pro and waiting for the LF+Pro+)
Thanks for clarifying that. My approach is identical to yours but I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing out on a more efficient way of programming. Song and setlist mode are totally useless for me then.

Now that I've eliminated the need to use those modes, I'm hoping you could clarify my next issue.

My original programming thought process was to set up a number of pages, each having essentially the same button allocations, only the IA's on each page would be different and would correspond to the relevant presets. example:

PAGE 1
Button2 -> preset No2 | Button3 -> preset No3
Buttons6,7,8 -> IA's used by those presets

PAGE 2
Same layout only IA's change to suit new presets.

I would then use Button1 (short) to scroll up the pages and Button1(long) to scroll down.

This method of programming is wrong, apparently.

I dont use or have the need for too many patches, say 8 in total, but of these 8 I would like to be able to turn on and off the relative IA's.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 

redbud

Inspired
here is what i do and it works very well I use preset mode only
page 1: button 1 bank up short and down long, button 5 next page short and tuner long this button is the same on all my pages. other buttons are 6 presets
page 2 is 6 UI set to drives wah and comp. button 1 is previous page and button 5 is next page
page 3 is 6 UI set to various effects again button 1 is previous page and button 5 is next page taking me back to my preset page.
I like to keep the long presses to a minimum.
simple and very effective
 

Tone_Loc

Member
Thanks Redbud. If Im reading your set up correctly, it would mean I'd have to press another button to access the IA's after Ive selected my preset. If so, then I dont want to do this.
I really only need to manipulate 3 or 4 IA's, relevant to that particular preset. Just want to ensure that whichever preset I pick, it "cues up" the appropriate IA's ready to go. (just said the same thing twice!) Your thoughts?

That leads me to another question, can I get the IA states to reset back to their original states by re-pressing the preset switch? If, so how? Currently it only turns on/off the IA but doesn't return it to its original state/color/position on the board.
 

voes

Fractal Fanatic
Vendor
Thanks for clarifying that. My approach is identical to yours but I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing out on a more efficient way of programming. Song and setlist mode are totally useless for me then.

Now that I've eliminated the need to use those modes, I'm hoping you could clarify my next issue.

My original programming thought process was to set up a number of pages, each having essentially the same button allocations, only the IA's on each page would be different and would correspond to the relevant presets. example:

PAGE 1
Button2 -> preset No2 | Button3 -> preset No3
Buttons6,7,8 -> IA's used by those presets

PAGE 2
Same layout only IA's change to suit new presets.

I would then use Button1 (short) to scroll up the pages and Button1(long) to scroll down.

This method of programming is wrong, apparently.

I dont use or have the need for too many patches, say 8 in total, but of these 8 I would like to be able to turn on and off the relative IA's.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I would use just one page:

button1 short: bank up
button1 long : bank down

button2-3: presets (the highest number will affect the bank up/down), so I would use 1-2 thus this gives me presets 1-2, 3-4, 5-6,....
don't forget to enable process scrolls in the page setup, otherwise the presets will stay on 1-2

seems easier to handle, because in your setup you need to change every change on every page. in 'my way' you only have to bother about 1 page. easier to handle (IMHO of course)

[EDIT] the use of pages is IMO only usefull when the layout needs to be changed (excluded preset changes). that's the main purpose of page as I understand it.
 

Tone_Loc

Member
Thanks Voes. That sounds logical however what if presets 3 and 4 were to use different IA's than presets 1 & 2?

EG. for presets 1&2 I would like to assign button 6 for drive 1, button 7 for delay 1, button 8 for chorus 1.
for presets 3&4 I would like to assign button 6 for trem, button 7 for flanger, button 8 for filter etc.

Assuming short and long press are different on both, wouldn't I need to create a 2nd page to get this to work?
 

voes

Fractal Fanatic
Vendor
Thanks Redbud. If Im reading your set up correctly, it would mean I'd have to press another button to access the IA's after Ive selected my preset. If so, then I dont want to do this.
I really only need to manipulate 3 or 4 IA's, relevant to that particular preset. Just want to ensure that whichever preset I pick, it "cues up" the appropriate IA's ready to go. (just said the same thing twice!) Your thoughts?
If I understand this correct you want for example when preset 1 is selected chorus - drive - delay on and when preset 2 is selected flanger - drive - pitch?

AFAIK that can only be done 2 ways:

1. in my example give the same CC number for chorus and flanger and the same CC number for delay and pitch.
the problem with this is, you can't use it in preset 3: chorus - flanger - drive, because chorus and flanger would have the same CC-number.
another problem is that the Littlle LCD's won't show CHORUS when you need it, but always. You could of course name your IA "CHO/FLA" or something like that.
but maybe it works for you

2. the other way is making a page for each preset, which is much more work and has a maximum of 60 (pages)


QUOTE=Tone_Loc;700722]That leads me to another question, can I get the IA states to reset back to their original states by re-pressing the preset switch? If, so how? Currently it only turns on/off the IA but doesn't return it to its original state/color/position on the board.[/QUOTE]

yes you can. in the preset make sure 'reset initial state' is enabled
 

redbud

Inspired
Thanks Voes. That sounds logical however what if presets 3 and 4 were to use different IA's than presets 1 & 2?

EG. for presets 1&2 I would like to assign button 6 for drive 1, button 7 for delay 1, button 8 for chorus 1.
for presets 3&4 I would like to assign button 6 for trem, button 7 for flanger, button 8 for filter etc.

Assuming short and long press are different on both, wouldn't I need to create a 2nd page to get this to work?
this is why I use pages. then I can access any IA I would like inside of any preset. I find this method to be easy and quick and less hassle than setting up a page for each preset. but you may find something else works better.
 

Tone_Loc

Member
Sort of, but not quite! I may not have explained myself clearly enough.

Firstly I'll explain why I want to do it this way and that is, I have the LF+ JR+ which as you know has 8 buttons so I want to maximise the setup. I understand the easiest way would be to get a Pro+ and assign the bottom row to presets and all other buttons to IA's. This would give me access to all/most IA's for every preset.

I would like to set it up so that a particular page would be selected when I select a particular preset.

Lets say I have a group/bank of presets (presets 1 to 4) that all have and only have the following IA's associated to them - (Drive 1 - Delay 1 - Chorus 1)
When I select any of those 4 presets, I would like button6 to be set/display as Drive 1 -- button7 to be set/display as Delay 1 -- button8 to be set/display as Chorus 1

Now, when I change to the group/bank of presets 5 to 8, (which all have and only have the following IA's associated to them - (Flanger 1 - Multi delay - Drive2)
I would want button6 to be set/display as Flanger 1, button7 to be set/display as Multi delay, button8 to be set/display as Drive 2.

This pattern would continue for the next group of 4 presets etc.

This is why I thought that creating a page per group of 4 presets and assigning button 1 to change pages up/down, would be the best way to achieve it but I was told by FAMC that this is the wrong way to go about it.
I hope you can see my frustration and confusion and hence why Im asking for advise from other users. I'm obviously new to LF controllers so maybe Im asking for something that isn't the way things usually get done.

I also asked FAMC why presets arent mapped like for like, as mentioned in my first post, but have not got a response about it. Maybe someone else could shed some light on it?
 

Stratman68

Axe-Master
I was an early buyer for the LF jr+ (for the fractal family here I mean) I got great help from Jeff and even a phone call where he walked me through some issues. Not sure where I would be now without that.
@op I am in the same boat as you are but tried a different approach. First I only have 2 presets a bank. This gives me 6 IA switchesX2=12. I also use 2 monentary switches (using exp pedal inputs) for up and down
I have another momentary that is dedicated to the Wah, but can be used for other styuff because I have it linked to EXT 2 in the Axe II. Then I of course have a Exp pedal in the last input of the 4 in the jr+.
I have an expression pedal plugged into the Axe ext 1 and it is for volume blocks only. I also shortened the time in the IA 2nd function. It takes a bit of getting used to but works great.

Hope I was a little clear here
 

redbud

Inspired
I also have the jr+ and only 8 buttons

I believe you will have to use separate pages for what you want to do. seems like a page flip button like i have setup may be the most simple without adding a more cables and switches. try it. it does work well.

or you can setup the preset buttons to switch to an effect page of your choosing automatically when u engage the preset. this way would give you 6/12 presets and 6/12 IA with any different page you choose. you will just need to allocate a button to flip back to preset page before changing presets again.

hope this works for ya.
 

ocelot911

New Member
I used to think the same but after a little work it is very easy
Could we start a beginners guide for this midi controller? I got it a while back but i really feel like I'm under water in programming as I am a total newb from the connecting the device to upgrading the firmware.

Just simple things upgrading, connecting & programming. As the OP said the videos go way into detail without explaining the basics first and the pdf guide is the same story as well. Cause everytime I'm about to do something i get scared that i might stuff the unit up some how.

Like i've been trying to upgrade the unit by going to firmware mode on the LF then i load the firmware file in the editor but it keeps on saying firmware failed. So I'm kind of stuck of what to do :(

Cheers,

Dan
 

voes

Fractal Fanatic
Vendor
Sort of, but not quite! I may not have explained myself clearly enough.

Firstly I'll explain why I want to do it this way and that is, I have the LF+ JR+ which as you know has 8 buttons so I want to maximise the setup. I understand the easiest way would be to get a Pro+ and assign the bottom row to presets and all other buttons to IA's. This would give me access to all/most IA's for every preset.

I would like to set it up so that a particular page would be selected when I select a particular preset.

Lets say I have a group/bank of presets (presets 1 to 4) that all have and only have the following IA's associated to them - (Drive 1 - Delay 1 - Chorus 1)
When I select any of those 4 presets, I would like button6 to be set/display as Drive 1 -- button7 to be set/display as Delay 1 -- button8 to be set/display as Chorus 1

Now, when I change to the group/bank of presets 5 to 8, (which all have and only have the following IA's associated to them - (Flanger 1 - Multi delay - Drive2)
I would want button6 to be set/display as Flanger 1, button7 to be set/display as Multi delay, button8 to be set/display as Drive 2.

This pattern would continue for the next group of 4 presets etc.

This is why I thought that creating a page per group of 4 presets and assigning button 1 to change pages up/down, would be the best way to achieve it but I was told by FAMC that this is the wrong way to go about it.
I hope you can see my frustration and confusion and hence why Im asking for advise from other users. I'm obviously new to LF controllers so maybe Im asking for something that isn't the way things usually get done.

I also asked FAMC why presets arent mapped like for like, as mentioned in my first post, but have not got a response about it. Maybe someone else could shed some light on it?
I've been thinking again and IMO the best way to get their is simple.
use bank up/down for presets (not page up/down)
and in each preset you give a program change command and a second command page select
 

North

Inspired
I just got the Jr+ myself and I agree the manual is (and the editor for that matter) all built around features and functions, not the process/steps one needs to go through. I wish the manual:

1. gave an overall introduction to its capabilities so one can chose the right mode and variations (presets, IAs, songs etc.).
2. the step by step instructions for global setup.
3. the step by step instructions for my particular, chosen setup (in my case 8 preset with IAs + tuner, bank selection etc).

Its frustrating and right now its just sitting there collecting dust.

It might be salvaged by info in this thread though, thanks very much!
 

dpeterson

Axe-Master
guys it's a general midi controller, step by step guides for every possible scenario is an impossible thing to ask. all the tools are there, just like the axe-fx, just have to learn how to use it.
 
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