Level the amp or level the output? Volume Question....

[musicman0001]

Should you level a preset especially with the amp or with output (and in what range)?

Ofcourse presets can be levelled many way's and you can not argue taste. So it's really a technical question as I believe the gain chain of a preset has impact on many things. In this context I'm wondering about the impact on perceived volume, volume before the effects or after will have impact (as already a compressor after the reverb will sound diffent then before).

Thoughs:
Is there a general level per amp (in relation to for example the jcm 800 is leveled at mostly between -12 and - 10 on my side and I level all my amps to the JCM800 as my reference. (And I try to stay within just some red above when I strum hard).

Does it matter if the amp is levelled real hard (around f.a. 0 Db) and that loud signal hits the effects. Or levelled by the output instead of the amp. To me it technically looks different and I also perceive them different on my system (axe fx as soundcard). Especially in the reverb and delay trails....

Your thougths, idea's, opinions....

 

[Moke]

Level your presets in the Amp block. That is where the internal level can be dramatically increased or decreased, depending on Drive and Master volume values..

If the Master Volume and/or Drive parameters are decreased a lot for sonic reasons, The 'Level' will need to be increased to compensate.

There are a lot of Amp parameters that can affect the Amp block's virtual output. One model may be at -15 dB, and another may be at +10 dB to get to the same output level. Don't let the actual value of the 'Level' parameter throw you. It needs to be where it needs to be.

 

[mwd]

I used to level via scenes or the output but I read a post by Chris (i think) that suggested leveling the amp as you would most likely do in a real scenario. Since then it's been a go to. I do use scene leveling on rare occasions when using dual amps and multiple scene needs. I don't use Output level adjust at all. Leveling the amp kind of keeps consistency between presets. You know where to look if adjustments are needed.

 

[Moke]

Also be aware of the output 'Level' of Compressor blocks. You may need to increase or decrease it to maintain a somewhat 'unity' level when compared to when it's bypassed. Unless you are purposely wanting a higher or lower output to affect 'gain' before an amp.

 

[musicman0001]

Level your presets in the Amp block. That is where the internal level can be dramatically increased or decreased, depending on Drive and Master volume values..

If the Master Volume and/or Drive parameters are decreased a lot for sonic reasons, The 'Level' will need to be increased to compensate.

There are a lot of Amp parameters that can affect the Amp block's virtual output. One model may be at -15 dB, and another may be at +10 dB to get to the same output level. Don't let the actual value of the 'Level' parameter throw you. It needs to be where it needs to be.

Same here, i start leveling in the amp block. But all in line with other amps volume or perceived volume

Clean can need high levels. And yes also around 0db.

Some amps i lower, but never passed -20.

I guess it already starts where you have the lowest volume amp as reference. If you start with jcm800 on big numbers the rest will have big numbers as well.

@Moke : where do you have your jcm800 and how much db in the red? And output level?

 

[Moke]

Same here, i start leveling in the amp block. But all in line with other amps volume or perceived volume

Clean can need high levels. And yes also around 0db.

Some amps i lower, but never passed -20.

I guess it already starts where you have the lowest volume amp as reference. If you start with jcm800 on big numbers the rest will have big numbers as well.

@Moke : where do you have your jcm800 and how much db in the red? And output level?

The unaltered 'Brit 800' model is currently ending up around '-8.5' dB when set with a good amount of gain. It changes with most firmware updates. My Brit 800 preset has Amp 1 edited a bit. This 'mod' lowers the output level, causing it to need to be set around 4 dB hotter (-4.5).

 

[strabes]

I leave everything at unity (or 0dB), and use the amp block to adjust the preset's overall level till it's metering around -18dB in my DAW via SPDIF. Drives gain staged as usual, mostly slightly above unity. The only other block in series that affects my dry level is the compressor which I set so the transient is at a similar level with or without the compressor on, which means adjusting the level to above unity.

 

[musicman0001]

I leave everything at unity (or 0dB), and use the amp block to adjust the preset's overall level till it's metering around -18dB in my DAW via SPDIF. The only other block in series that affects my dry level is the compressor which I set so the transient is at a similar level with or without the compressor on, which means adjusting the level to above unity.

I guess you set amp level first to match the 0Db output level. Or the full chain leveled at 0db? Including boost and effects?

Similar to what I do, but seems so many ways. See some presets with high gain amps close to amp level 0. And high volume in output block.

Could this be due to my montitors take +4 Db?

 

[skolacki]

Amp level and all other blocks at unity, except if I’m boosting with a drive or amp boost. Haven’t had a need to use any other method.

 

[musicman0001]

Reason for asking is that the attached preset (as an example as I had same with GOT from dweezil) that my setup does not like these kinds of presets that have loads of volume and fixing this with levels made the preset unbalanced. And left and right channels where great differences in volume (on purpose). PS: Preset downloaded from forum.

This makes me wonder if it is because I use +4DB for my adam monitors?

(I'm really trying to find out if I'm not using my setup properly!)

 

[guitarnerdswe]

Should you level a preset especially with the amp or with output (and in what range)?

Ofcourse presets can be levelled many way's and you can not argue taste. So it's really a technical question as I believe the gain chain of a preset has impact on many things. In this context I'm wondering about the impact on perceived volume, volume before the effects or after will have impact (as already a compressor after the reverb will sound diffent then before).

Thoughs:
Is there a general level per amp (in relation to for example the jcm 800 is leveled at mostly between -12 and - 10 on my side and I level all my amps to the JCM800 as my reference. (And I try to stay within just some red above when I strum hard).

Does it matter if the amp is levelled real hard (around f.a. 0 Db) and that loud signal hits the effects. Or levelled by the output instead of the amp. To me it technically looks different and I also perceive them different on my system (axe fx as soundcard). Especially in the reverb and delay trails....

Your thougths, idea's, opinions....

You're absolutely correct about that it affects the trails of reverb and delay. That's one of the reasons that I use the amp level control instead. The other is that I want whatever block that comes after the amp block to be driven about as hard, regardless of what amp channel I use. For instance, every block with a drive control will be affected be a difference in output from the amp block (rotary, delays, cabs etc), if you use any kind of drive in those blocks.

I view the level of the output block as a last resort, since it can be controlled via a footswitch mid song. If I really feel like I need to change the volume of a scene a bit, I might to that with my controller. However, I will go back to the preset when I have time and make that change in the amp block instead.

 

[Rock Chalk]

Reason for asking is that the attached preset (as an example as I had same with GOT from dweezil) that my setup does not like these kinds of presets that have loads of volume and fixing this with levels made the preset unbalanced. And left and right channels where great differences in volume (on purpose). PS: Preset downloaded from forum.

This makes me wonder if it is because I use +4DB for my adam monitors?

(I'm really trying to find out if I'm not using my setup properly!)

As I stated in the other thread, that preset sounds great with, and was created using the same set up you have.....nothing but a pair of Adam A7X's.

The only difference being, apparently, is that you don't have a volume pedal, which that preset is using to control the volume of the volume block.

If you want to hear the same thing I'm hearing, turn your Adams to one mark past half, turn the volume in the volume block to 5.65, and turn the
out1 knob on the front of the Axe Fx to just under 3/4 of the way.....if then you still don't like the way the amp models are balanced left to right,

then we simply have different tastes, and I would consider asking for a refund of the preset.

 

[musicman0001]

As I stated in the other thread, that preset sounds great with, and was created using the same set up you have.....nothing but a pair of Adam A7X's.

The only difference being, apparently, is that you don't have a volume pedal, which that preset is using to control the volume of the volume block.

If you want to hear the same thing I'm hearing, turn your Adams to one mark past half, turn the volume in the volume block to 5.65, and turn the
out1 knob on the front of the Axe Fx to just under 3/4 of the way.....if then you still don't like the way the amp models are balanced left to right,

then we simply have different tastes, and I would consider asking for a refund of the preset. View attachment 115950.

Will do. Reason i used your preset is i really want to understand the volume stuff and how others use the axe fx. Maybe my setup is wrong.

 

[jamesmarshall]

It depends on what exactly you are after.

If you just have input amp and cab then start with the amp output and do the final little bit with the out block.

If you have a lead patch with delays and chorus, etc... Then start by getting the amp output right so you have the correct signal level going into your next blocks (cab, delay, chorus, verb, etc). Once you have the balance setup just how you like, you set the level with the output block. Try to match your presets/scenes so they are all at the same level in their output blocks.

You can also use the level matching in Axe-edit III, to get it closest.