Just ordered Ultimate Ears 11 pro. Anyone else use in-ears?

UPDATE:

Finally got the UE11s and tried it at a gig last saturday:

The good:
Sounds fantastic. Really was NOT an issue in transitioning from my Wedge to in-Ears. The clarity and warm tone was addicting enough that I fell right into the groove right away. The bigggest addjustment, was trying to balance the OTHER band in the in-ears. The monitor mixer was too far away to make adjustments while playing, so I had to wait until first break to get the drums and bass higher in my own mix. This was important since the In-ears block out anything you might hear on stage. Also, interesting to note, some recommended getting an ambient mic on stage, but I quickly realized the three vocal mics onstage gave me just enough "air" that I could hear audience and such as well.

The bad:
Rather uncomfortable. Initial 30 min of each set was "OK" but beyond that, my ears started to hurt a bit here and there. Kinda numb ache. I initially thought they may be too big, but they don't really feel that way. More like my ears just don't like being plugged up and the vacuum causes a weird pain. Now, granted, not SERIOUS pain or anything, more of just an annoyance (as in the feeling is distracting a bit while playing, but goes away 100% when I take them out at break). I'm going to continue using them and see if my ears "adapt" to them over time as recommend on a few other forums. I hope this doesn't scare anyone off, but it was important to note.

So in the end, they are a success. If I can get past the uncomfortable part (i.e. my ears adapt a bit better) then These are a WIN solution to onstage sound. The Guitar solos where much better this gig because the stereo separation and clarity warmth allowed me to play less and hold notes out better since I can clearly hear what I was doing.

Probably the cooler part was that I tended to LOWER the volume in the ears throughout the night. VERY Strange experience to feel happy at a lower volume. The clarity was there at any volume so at lower volumes I could hear the complete mix better.
 
If you wear your buds when you do activities, ie: listen at work, mowing the grass, exercising and you will get more used to them.

I find I don't need the ambient mic either as there are 3 vocal mic's that bleed enough.
 
Further updating my thread... did a couple more gigs with the in-ears and really love them. My ears are finally getting used to them and they don't hurt anymore. One trick I found was to minimize the vacuum effect as much as possible. Don't force them in or the vacuum over time creates the most pain. If I sort let them fall into place they seal the sound just fine but don't ache.

Sound is fantastic. I'm running them in stereo separation which makes for such amazing tone improvement over the single wedge. Also, allowing me to be as loud in the mix as I want, means I'm more dynamic then before since I don't bang so hard on the guitar to hear what I'm playing. wicked.

Another big bonus, which is mentioned all over the net, is that the perceived volume in the earbud is loud, but actual sound pressure on your ears is lower then without. When I take them out, the break music is BLISTERINGLY loud (where as before it just seemed the same volume as the band) and at the end of the gig I feel like I've been simply playing quietly in my basement with NO ear fatigue. I can chat with bandmates without shouting! :)

I'm a convert. WOW how far I've come from my full Marshall stack on 11 with 8 vintage pedals and three guitars! My rig can be brought in with one haul now and I've never sounded better.... cool.
 
Gamedojo said:
Another big bonus, which is mentioned all over the net, is that the perceived volume in the earbud is loud, but actual sound pressure on your ears is lower then without. When I take them out, the break music is BLISTERINGLY loud (where as before it just seemed the same volume as the band) and at the end of the gig I feel like I've been simply playing quietly in my basement with NO ear fatigue. I can chat with bandmates without shouting! :)
Click to expand...

This is always something I wonder about, and has kept me from using my in-ears....as I have been told the opposite.
My vocal instructor who has some big name clients (Steven Tyler, Scott Weiland, John Rzeznick), told me I should avoid in-ears as they put more direct sound on your ear drums.

His rational is - if a stage is 120db, and a good sealed earplug will reduce the sound by 30db.....then with earplugs or earbuds in place, the outside noise is reduced to 90db. So in order for you to hear your in-ears, they need to be 90db or louder, just to be heard over the stage noise.
His claim was that 90db+ directly on your ear drums (using in-ears) does more damage than 120db that is 'around' you on stage (if you had no in-ears).

If anyone works in audiology and could comment, it would be awesome to know if this is true or not.

To be safe, I usually just wear ear plugs (and not my in-ears)
 
BBN said:
His rational is - if a stage is 120db, and a good sealed earplug will reduce the sound by 30db.....then with earplugs or earbuds in place, the outside noise is reduced to 90db. So in order for you to hear your in-ears, they need to be 90db or louder, just to be heard over the stage noise.

His claim was that 90db+ directly on your ear drums (using in-ears) does more damage than 120db that is 'around' you on stage (if you had no in-ears).
Click to expand...


When we're playing at normal levels on stage I find that my in-ear mix sounds "muddy", so I wear 28db ear muff over my IEM's (like the guys on airport runways). I suppose it looks a little odd but I hear everything clearly then so it's worth it for me. When things are quieter on stage I'm just fine without the ear muffs. I don't think I would turn my in-ears up any louder if I played without the ear muffs. I would just be frustrated. However, I can see why others might crank things louder, and cause hearing damage.

I don't think that what your vocal coach is describing is an issue of "direct" vs. "indirect" sound. Rather, I think there are two sound sources that combine, ambient and in-ear, to create an aggregate level at the ear drum that's unhealthy. Add to that the need to increase in-ear levels if the ambient level is high, simply to be heard.

The bottom line is that keeping stage levels down is arguably still the best way to save your hearing, even when using in-ears.

My $0.02.

Terry.
 
Well, your vocal instructor is teaching how to sing, and not about audio engineering and science. I would take his suggestions with a grain of salt. I don't understand how he would know/say 90db in ear is more damage then 120dB around the stage. dB is dB. Its a measurement of energy.

Unless he was able to give you examples of his professional clients that were fine until they started using in-ears, it sounds more like he is just personally afraid of something he doesn't fully understand and has created fuzzy logic to justify his fears, and then transfers them to you.

MOST if not ALL top-tier musicians play with very low stage volume and high end in-ear monitor scenarios. Though this isn't the best logic to live by, my intuition tells me that musicans that make millions for a living and rely so much on their ears would NOT be using In-ears if they were truely were more dangerous then simply wedges.

My personal experience tells me my ears are much less damaged after a 4 hour gig with a 10 piece soul band and my biggest moment of "wow" happened when I took my ears out after the first set and the sound system blaring the break music made me immediately wince with how loud it was. that has NEVER happened before.

Honestly, my ears during playing felt more like I was playing at a comfortable listening volume in my basement during the whole gig vs. the usual blisteringly loud live stage sound I was used to. It was clearer, more wide sounding, warmer, balanced, and at times I felt I was listening to a recorded album vs. a live mix.

I'd simply say personal experience trumps wishy washy logic IMO. I'd say try them out yourself to determine if your teacher is correct.

(to address the dB... I'm guessing the biggest issue with your instructor is the assumption of 120dB stage volume. I'm guessing my band, with all in-ears, is pushing 90-100 max at any given point. Which means my in-ears are probably at about 70-75db max which is considered roughly the volume of a slightly louder normal conversation. But because its a full band mix and separation is great, its a full presentation of the music being played and I have no need for it to be louder)


BBN said:
This is always something I wonder about, and has kept me from using my in-ears....as I have been told the opposite.
My vocal instructor who has some big name clients (Steven Tyler, Scott Weiland, John Rzeznick), told me I should avoid in-ears as they put more direct sound on your ear drums.

His rational is - if a stage is 120db, and a good sealed earplug will reduce the sound by 30db.....then with earplugs or earbuds in place, the outside noise is reduced to 90db. So in order for you to hear your in-ears, they need to be 90db or louder, just to be heard over the stage noise.
His claim was that 90db+ directly on your ear drums (using in-ears) does more damage than 120db that is 'around' you on stage (if you had no in-ears).

If anyone works in audiology and could comment, it would be awesome to know if this is true or not.

To be safe, I usually just wear ear plugs (and not my in-ears)
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Your vocal instructor is correct in that if you are working a stage that stays around 120db you will go deaf.

Just get some attenuating ear plugs. They are full frequency response but just cut db level. Mine are custom molds from Westone. They have different inserts to cut different db levels. I use -9db and -12db inserts depending on what I'm doing.

Using IEM's is not about overcoming hella' loud stages. And you really should think about the IEM levels and use a brick wall limiter too.
 
Gamedojo said:
Will do. I'm guessing the trick is to micro manage the mix and maybe try ambient mics.
Click to expand...


I use in-ears and plug my Axe FX into a system direct, everytime I play. Aside from the loss of the ability to feed back into an amp (which I use a Fernandes sustainer to achieve now), I love it. You are right about having ambient mics too so you can hear the crowd.

There are in-ears with relief cuts in them so you can let outside sound in, but I have found that counter intuitive to the purpose. If you get high quality in-ears and get the molds fitted, the purpose is to completely (as much as possible) block out outside sounds, and therefore you can actually turn everything down, and still hear it.

The damage to my ears is already done, from years of playing in small rehearsal rooms with full drums and amps, but at least I'm not further damaging them by continuing that insanity anymore.
 
barhrecords said:
Your vocal instructor is correct in that if you are working a stage that stays around 120db you will go deaf.
Click to expand...

You have about 7 - 8 minutes of safe listening time at 120dbA (according to osha standards). I can't image what a 2 hour set at that level would do to unprotected ears.

Terry.
 
Gamedojo said:
Well, your vocal instructor is teaching how to sing, and not about audio engineering and science. I would take his suggestions with a grain of salt. I don't understand how he would know/say 90db in ear is more damage then 120dB around the stage. dB is dB. Its a measurement of energy.
Click to expand...

Well, this is partially true. There has been much science involved over the years of lessons with him.
(Rest requirements, hydration requirements in order to ensure your vocal folds return to 'normal thickness' after gigs. How to thin your folds using certain exercises if you are sick or suffering from allergies.)
I'm not saying he's a scientist or audiologist.....but he knows much more about the human body than you would expect. I'm not giving out his name to protect his privacy....but he has more rock star clients, than not. I feel honored to have lessons with him. He is also frequently asked to endorse certain brands of in ears, but he declines because he feels they are harmful.
I also realize that one persons opinion does not make it true....so I'm just giving all this info as food for thought.

I do have molded ear plugs, but I generally use foam plugs because I just like them better.
When I got my molds done by an audiologist, I asked this same question....and they would not give me a straight answer. They simply told me I should always wear ear protection.

The suggestion my teacher made that made me stop using in-ears was when he told me to fire up my in-ears the morning AFTER a gig.
He wanted me to hear the volume of my in-ears from a gig....but sitting at home. It was brutal.....my mic was WAY to loud!
But who knows....maybe my band is also too damn loud and forcing me to crank my in-ears.

Anyway....just things to think about.

Would love to hear from any audiologists if there is one on the forum....
 
If your stage volume is 120db then you need to turn it down, really that is way too loud! At the worst, you should only ever be as loud as your drummers acoustic volume and IMO 105db is pushing it. If you have a gorilla drummer, then invest in some clearsonic plexiglass panels or the like, around the drums or insist that he learn some dynamics, and badger him until he does. Same with overbearing guitarists that insist on cranking their tube amp for the "tonez!" a baffle in front of their cab will reduce the volume considerably.

In-ears work best only if the entire band is using them. If not, your stage volume will always be competition. The whole concept of in-ears is about hearing everything clearly, not loudly.

if not using in-ears, I recommend Hearos high fidelity plugs 22 NRR on stage, or if you are seeing a concert then Hearos Xtreme 33NRR. very comfortable and cheap, but they do exactly what they are supposed to.
 
I get mixed results if the entire band isn't using in ears.

A mix of in-ears and wedges with some band mates with and without in-ears is just plain difficult in my experience.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom