Just ordered a B-stock FM3 mk I from G66, a few questions

[Aleksi]

I've been increasingly frustrated with my current modeler and figured I should try going with Fractal again. Had a dream about buying a Fractal last night and today G66 had added b-stock items on their store and now here we are.

So I'm not yet sure if the FM3 will be enough for me or if I should go with FM9 instead.

My patches on the modeler currently are quite simple, I use drive and amp models and sometimes a few fx. I use an HX Effects for reverbs and delays and sometimes pitch fx or something weirder. I can definitely do what I need with the FM3 and supplement with HX Effects for more ambient stuff. I will use the fx on the Fractal, as they are fantastic.

One possible issue is that I like to have seamless (or near seamless) switching between amp sounds. Is there any word on the gapless switching coming to the channels on the FM3? How is the switching delay currently?

Another question is, how does the FM3 handle fx loop latency? I want to have the loop with 100% wet fx in the loop on a parallel path, so that there is no extra latency on the dry signal. On my current device I found that I can bypass latency compensation by using separate send and return blocks instead of a combined fx loop. So is the fx loop latency compensated on the FM3 or not?

 

[mrleon83]

While we await the hopeful development of gallows’s switching, check out scene controllers. It’s a really powerful tool which I’ve used for 18 months to go from clean, crunch and lead.

 

[warcraze216]

I just bought an FM3 a few weeks ago. I was on the fence but I am very happy with the FM3. I do not currently have any needs that are not met with the FM3. It really does sound amazing.

 

[Madtone]

I’ve had my FM3 for just over 2 months now. I’m very happy and have no regrets with my choice. Sounds great, plenty of tweaking options and flexibility. I can get close to maxing out the cpu, but that’s just because I think more is always better. Also customer service from G66 was first class and delivery very quick.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Another question is, how does the FM3 handle fx loop latency? I want to have the loop with 100% wet fx in the loop on a parallel path, so that there is no extra latency on the dry signal. On my current device I found that I can bypass latency compensation by using separate send and return blocks instead of a combined fx loop. So is the fx loop latency compensated on the FM3 or not?

An external effects loop in parallel with the internal signal chain will have latency caused by the devices on that external loop. You can’t speed up the signal coming back from those devices, but you can delay the signal in the other, internal, path an equal amount so both paths are in sync. The modeler has no way of knowing what is in that external loop so we have to manage the problem ourselves.

I’d stick a flanger block set to manual with no modulation or feedback into the internal parallel path, and adjust its time to compensate.

If the devices in the external loop use modulation or changing delay times then it can get tricky, but it should be doable.

 

[chrisjnyc]

I've been increasingly frustrated with my current modeler and figured I should try going with Fractal again. Had a dream about buying a Fractal last night and today G66 had added b-stock items on their store and now here we are.

So I'm not yet sure if the FM3 will be enough for me or if I should go with FM9 instead.

My patches on the modeler currently are quite simple, I use drive and amp models and sometimes a few fx. I use an HX Effects for reverbs and delays and sometimes pitch fx or something weirder. I can definitely do what I need with the FM3 and supplement with HX Effects for more ambient stuff. I will use the fx on the Fractal, as they are fantastic.

One possible issue is that I like to have seamless (or near seamless) switching between amp sounds. Is there any word on the gapless switching coming to the channels on the FM3? How is the switching delay currently?

Another question is, how does the FM3 handle fx loop latency? I want to have the loop with 100% wet fx in the loop on a parallel path, so that there is no extra latency on the dry signal. On my current device I found that I can bypass latency compensation by using separate send and return blocks instead of a combined fx loop. So is the fx loop latency compensated on the FM3 or not?

I would be cautious about buying the FM3 and the need for gapless switching. It's not even in beta on the FM9 yet. No idea if that will ever make its way to FM3. Plenty of options that can be done without any audio drop out if you use scene controllers or go without an amp block, and use just a drive block in place of the amp.

 

[TheloniusJ]

I'll be honest, I'd probably encourage you to consider the FM9. I've had my FM3 for several years now and have gigged, rehearsed, recorded and practiced with it regularly. I think if all I was doing was using it for home recording and practicing, it would have been enough. However, I found I was running into limits for gigging and ultimately upgraded to the FM9. I'm hanging onto my FM3, but the FM9 is my primary performance rig.

With the FM3, I ran into two issues:

• Needed to add devices to meet my switching and contol needs. Basically I wanted to have some things like dedicated tap tempo and switching views or quickly accessing specific effects. I had a two switch Mosky but ultimately upgraded to adding a Morningstar MC-6, mostly because I wanted two expression pedals and the Mosky was eating up a pedal port.
• CPU limit. I don't have crazy presets, but found myself getting up to the 80% limit pretty quickly and either had to compromise or create a duplicate preset I switch to to meet a specific scenario.

Both of these issues were solved with the FM9 and much more elegantly (the six extra switches on the FM9 beat the shit out of the switches I got with the MC-6).

Regarding amp and delay switching, this is definitely an issue which is very real. As was mentioned, this will be solved with gapless switching, but will be a while. Again, the FM9 will be a better solution for you in the short term.

 

[unix-guy]

While we await the hopeful development of gallows’s switching, check out scene controllers.

Deadly!

 

[Aleksi]

An external effects loop in parallel with the internal signal chain will have latency caused by the devices on that external loop. You can’t speed up the signal coming back from those devices, but you can delay the signal in the other, internal, path an equal amount so both paths are in sync. The modeler has no way of knowing what is in that external loop so we have to manage the problem ourselves.

I’d stick a flanger block set to manual with no modulation or feedback into the internal parallel path, and adjust its time to compensate.

If the devices in the external loop use modulation or changing delay times then it can get tricky, but it should be doable.

Yes, I'm aware that you can't speed up a signal, but some devices delay the dry signal to compensate for fx loop latency. What I want to know (and I guess I'll find out soon) is whether the latency caused by the A/D/A conversion in the loop is compensated by delaying the dry signal. I'd rather not add latency to the dry signal.

I'll be honest, I'd probably encourage you to consider the FM9. I've had my FM3 for several years now and have gigged, rehearsed, recorded and practiced with it regularly. I think if all I was doing was using it for home recording and practicing, it would have been enough. However, I found I was running into limits for gigging and ultimately upgraded to the FM9. I'm hanging onto my FM3, but the FM9 is my primary performance rig.

With the FM3, I ran into two issues:

• Needed to add devices to meet my switching and contol needs. Basically I wanted to have some things like dedicated tap tempo and switching views or quickly accessing specific effects. I had a two switch Mosky but ultimately upgraded to adding a Morningstar MC-6, mostly because I wanted two expression pedals and the Mosky was eating up a pedal port.
• CPU limit. I don't have crazy presets, but found myself getting up to the 80% limit pretty quickly and either had to compromise or create a duplicate preset I switch to to meet a specific scenario.

Both of these issues were solved with the FM9 and much more elegantly (the six extra switches on the FM9 beat the shit out of the switches I got with the MC-6).

Regarding amp and delay switching, this is definitely an issue which is very real. As was mentioned, this will be solved with gapless switching, but will be a while. Again, the FM9 will be a better solution for you in the short term.

The problem with the FM9 is that it's really quite large physically as well as being quite a bit more expensive than the FM3 in the EU. That's why I want to give the FM3 a chance. Then again, the Axe-Fx II was my main rig for nearly 11 years, so if I'll be happy with the FM9 for a long time then the price is not really an issue. We'll have to see how I get along with the FM3.

 

[northern_fox]

Another question is, how does the FM3 handle fx loop latency? I want to have the loop with 100% wet fx in the loop on a parallel path, so that there is no extra latency on the dry signal. On my current device I found that I can bypass latency compensation by using separate send and return blocks instead of a combined fx loop. So is the fx loop latency compensated on the FM3 or not?

No latency compensation, and you can get very creative using both loops along with the multiplexer block and using L/R routing (for example, using one loop and still retaining a second output for poweramp). Welcome from the other place

 

[Aleksi]

No latency compensation, and you can get very creative using both loops along with the multiplexer block and using L/R routing (for example, using one loop and still retaining a second output for poweramp). Welcome from the other place

Thanks! It says "new member" under my username, but I've been a member for nearly 15 years! I should've known I'd be back to using Fractal before long. The other unit is not bad by any means, but I just don't want to keep waiting for basic features forever.

 

[northern_fox]

Thanks! It says "new member" under my username, but I've been a member for nearly 15 years! I should've known I'd be back to using Fractal before long. The other unit is not bad by any means, but I just don't want to keep waiting for basic features forever.

I think it's by post count and not join date haha. And I agree. I've been using the fm3 and tonex in the loop for a while, and at this point I'm considering just using the fm3 by itself for simplicity's sake until a better option comes along. My 'other unit' has been housebound for like a year now except for some acoustic shows because I'm afraid it's going to break and other general frustrations. FM3 is about 3-4ms latency by itself, and about 5-6ms with my tonex which is fully in series.

 

[Aleksi]

I think it's by post count and not join date haha. And I agree. I've been using the fm3 and tonex in the loop for a while, and at this point I'm considering just using the fm3 by itself for simplicity's sake until a better option comes along. My 'other unit' has been housebound for like a year now except for some acoustic shows because I'm afraid it's going to break and other general frustrations. FM3 is about 3-4ms latency by itself, and about 5-6ms with my tonex which is fully in series.

I'm just a home player these days but I enjoy having nice gear and love making my guitar sound pretty (but most of the time it's caveman chugs ). I'm happy with the od and amp sounds in the other unit, but it's a huge waste to just use it as an od+amp+ir device.

I remember being happy with just the Axe-Fx II for years and never having GAS. But then again, I was a student back then and didn't have any more money to spend on gear either.

 

[Stratman68]

I agree that you should give the FM3 a chance!

 

[Aleksi]

I agree that you should give the FM3 a chance!

Yep, from all I've seen, it can basically do everything I want and realistically I don't really NEED gapless switching since I only play at home and especially if it'll cost me 1100€ more. It's just an aesthetic thing, you know? Sounds nicer when everything is super smooth. I'll give it a fair chance and see how it works with the HX Effects. I already checked that I can plug my mission exp pedals into the HX and have it send exp data via MIDI, so now that's sorted.

 

[Paul Bradshaw]

you can achieve better switching with scene controllers, it won't necessarily be completely gapless but you can get a lot more out of the same scene/preset in the process

i can't comment on the fx loop latency but i think for your usage it's definitely worth giving the FM3 a go, especially with the line6 integration in mind (you can even use the midi out on the hx effects for switching and extra effects)

the FM9 is definitely a step up in terms of cpu / dual amps etc.. but a lot bigger unit as well

 

[Aleksi]

The FM3 was delivered today. There's really no signs of use other than some fingerprints on the screen and a bit of dust. Tried it real quick. I'm actually surprised at how quick the channel switching is in the amp block. Preset 50w plexi sounds and feels REALLY good. With Fishman Classics, there was an enormous difference between humbucking and single coil modes, far more pronounced than on any other modeler I've tried.

I'm worried I may have to return it and get the Turbo

 

[Will Chen]

The FM3 was delivered today. There's really no signs of use other than some fingerprints on the screen and a bit of dust. Tried it real quick. I'm actually surprised at how quick the channel switching is in the amp block. Preset 50w plexi sounds and feels REALLY good. With Fishman Classics, there was an enormous difference between humbucking and single coil modes, far more pronounced than on any other modeler I've tried.

I'm worried I may have to return it and get the Turbo

Congrats!

Yes, for the vast majority of users current channel switching is more than fast enough and honestly in line with some real amp's channel switching which incorporate an intentional gap/delay to hide a pop. Seamless patch switching is welcome, but I think lot's of FM3 users need to really look into how spill over works on the FM3, for example for ambient stuff if one wants spillover the same effects have to exist in both patches which eliminates any potential CPU saved with a patch change.

 

[Aleksi]

Within like 30 minutes I had a 5150 III patch that probably sounds better than anything I've dialed on the QC. Being able to choose the proper speaker impedance makes all the difference. So, 5150 III Stealth when?

 

[Dickie Fredericks]

I can do 95% (yes its a guess lol) of my Axe 3 presets on my FM3.
Every preset doesn't have to be a kitchen sink preset. I'd have no issue using the FM3 live with or without the FC6.