John Mayer plugin tips

I just spent a couple of hours auditioning and exploring all the John Mayer patches in Archetype John Mayer to see what I could learn, and to apply that to my recently created Paradise Guitar Studio patches (which were inspired by my FM9 patches). I ended up not changing that much in my PGS patches.

JM takes a pedals into clean amps approach to gain staging. I see why anyone using big guitar amps would need to do that - it's the only way to get saturated tones at reasonable volume without resorting to load or iso boxes. And he gets great tone. But in the modeling world, we don't have those constraints, we can get saturation from the amp block and still control the overall level as needed.

So I prefer to get my clean, drive and lead tones at least partially from the amp itself using Fender, Vox and Marshall style models. Then the pedals adjust from there. There's no pedal stacking which I feel gives the increased saturation at the cost of loss in dynamics and feel.

Although Archetype John Mayer has the option to use all three amps - they're just blended captures of the amps at JM chosen settings, you can't adjust them or use your own setting of all three amps at once. And all three of those captures are pretty similar, mostly slight variants of a clean platform, possibly with most of the difference coming from the cabinets. I found Paradise Guitar Studio more flexible because it has the three amp food groups: Fender, Vox and Marshall, instead of the three amps in Archetype Guitar Studio that are pretty much variants of a Fender clean amp.

When I got done experimenting with Archetype John Mayer, and adjusting my Paradise Guitar Studio patches, I thought I'd just go back and compare them with S-Gear, which I haven't used in a while. I immediately remembered how inspiring it was playing through S-Gear. It doesn't have the effects of Paradise Guitar Studio or Helix Native, but the amp models, and the effects it does have, are stellar, possibly quite a bit better than any of the others, but of course that is subjective. S-Gear makes the guitar come alive. It has a transparency and richness so you can hear the detail of every string. The distortion is smooth and pleasant, with hi end without being overly harsh and tiring.

I think I'm going back to S-Gear for recording.
 
There’s really something strange about Neural DSP’s plugin technology. At first they seem to sound good, but then you start hearing something wrong in the mids and especially the upper‑mids/highs — something that “sits on” the sound. Aliasing or something else… I’m not sure.
And once you start hearing it, it’s over.

I use a lot of plugins, and when I switch to Softube for example — which I consider pretty much the best in the world — it feels like the universe opens up again.
With Neural it’s always the same: at first, wow… but then little by little I start noticing these bandwidth issues. The sound feels kind of compressed… flattened. Mah!
 
Aja said:
The Dumble from FAS is an Overdrive Special (I don’t remember the number). I’m sure someone here could tell you the difference and/or how to “mod” the ODS to be more like the SSS.
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Fractal has the Overdrive Special as well as the HRM Dumble models.

There's also the Bludojai which is a copy of the Robben Ford's Dumble amp.
 
unix-guy said:
Fractal has the Overdrive Special as well as the HRM Dumble models.

There's also the Bludojai which is a copy of the Robben Ford's Dumble amp.
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The HRM is still an ODS100. Just modded. As far as I know the SSS has a lot more headroom.
 
Aja said:
The HRM is still an ODS100. Just modded. As far as I know the SSS has a lot more headroom.
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Yeah, try the Austin buddy steel string mod for the steel stringer tones. That’s really what you want for the john Mayer clean. It’s clean but very powerful at the same time. There’s a lot of attack and snap in the notes that you don’t get with the ODS models
 
As already mentioned, @Jon Kaneshiro got some great JM tones from the J35.

I used his approach and was pretty happy with the results. I need to revisit that model :)
 
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Seven2Eleven said:
Yeah, try the Austin buddy steel string mod for the steel stringer tones. That’s really what you want for the john Mayer clean. It’s clean but very powerful at the same time. There’s a lot of attack and snap in the notes that you don’t get with the ODS models
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Probably a tweaked version of that one, a new FAS original called Dear John coming in next release
 
Randalljax said:
Probably a tweaked version of that one, a new FAS original called Dear John coming in next release
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I actually suggested recently fractal collaborate with Austin buddy and just make a FAS original amp model loosely based off Austin buddy’s tweaks. They won’t make an actual SSS model without a real amp and a schematic in their hands.

The core of the mod is to change the tone stack of the ampeg SVT to the skyliner tone stock, which is what Dumble used in his later Dumbles. Earlier Dumbles used a fender tone stack, which is what its John’s steel string singer #2. I’m going to try changing the tone stack to one of the fender stacks and see how that works out.
 
GMGM said:
There are many reasons...

- FM9 is in my rehearsal space (not at my DAW workstation).

- FM9 is my live rig, I need to be able to work faster - and more seemlessly - in my DAW. And if I'm working a mix remotely, I don't want to carry additional hardware with me.

- FM9 has fixed sample rate @ 48kHz. No human can actually hear the difference between 48 or anything higher, but it really does become an issue if you do any serious sample manipulation (ie - like big time stretches or pitch manipulation).

- My DAW is Windows based, and I'm too stubborn to switch. But the truth is that Windows has sh#t the bed for audio. Somehow, we're still largely dependent on ASIO drivers, which are still unable to aggregate audio interfaces, So in order to use FM9, it needs to become my audio interface, which means re-pathcing my speakers, and a bunch of outboard gear - or worse - wearing headphones. Maybe SPDIF could b an option - but since my interface doesn't a SPDIF connection, it doesn't really matter.

- I can better latency with plugins than I can with a messy FM9 re-amp setup.

- TLDR: I just prefer plugins (for recording).




There are so many great plugins today, but I'd happily delete them all for AFX Native VST :)

I mean, how cool would it be to use the same sounds from your record, on stage?

But also, I totally understand why FAS hasn't released an AFX plugin. It'd cannibalize too many hardware sales, which would NOT be in their best interests. But still, I'd be among the first to adopt it if it ever did happen :)
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It may cannibalize hardware sales in the short-term, but software solutions like plugins are ultimately the future. The hardware stuff will just get more and more expensive, and it will become obsolete faster as technology is moving at a rapid pace with the advances in AI, etc. If you notice, a lot of the modeling companies, like a lot of the Chinese brands, tend to quickly abandon their hardware as the tech gets better, and they just make a new hardware unit that can run the new tech. Fractal and L6 are the only ones who really push their hardware to the absolute maximum lifespan. OG Helix was around for 10 years before Stadium came. I believe Fractal will eventually be forced to adopt the plugin model, especially if L6 does it with their Stadium line and NDSP are getting very high-level all-in-one endorsee plugins like Mayer and Petrucci. However, I do believe hardware certainly has its place, especially for touring musicians.
 
I feel like a mad scientist right now and this is why I love Fractal.

So like I mentioned before, Mayer's Steel String Singer reportedly doesn't use a Skyliner tone stack but a Blackface twin tone stack.

I was ABing the Steel String singer in the NDSP plugin and the Austin Buddy Steel string singer using the same IR and they were definitely comparable clean. When I kicked an 808 though that's when the differences were more apparent. When I changed the tone stack to a black face twin, it immediately made them nearly identical.

So yeah, if anyone is looking to cop the steel string singer from the NDSP plugin, follow Austin Buddy's Steel String Singer mods but instead of using a Skyliner tone stack, use the black face. Also, boost the depth knob in the ideal tab as well to replicate the deep switch being on. The "fat" switch is more mid range than lows and I find it makes everything too boxy. I have the depth knob around 5
 
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Thanks for the shoutouts everyone! Yes, I have a lot of videos on my channel that are either tutorials or demos of my Tone Match presets. Most of which are John Mayer type of tones. Link to my channel so you can look around for some Fractal tutorials.
 
Demo'ing the plugin. Sounds really good without tweaking anything , also alot of useable presets from other artists. To me this plugin made much bigger impresion than any of UAD guitar plugins i bought, considering buying it, just maybe will wait for a sale.
 
I just tried the Archetype: John Mayer plugin, and my conclusion is that there’s nothing in it that can’t be achieved on the Fractal units if you’re willing to put in the time.

Mayer’s clean tones are fairly straightforward to approximate. The real “secret sauce” in his lead tones comes from how he stacks his overdrive pedals.

If you’re looking for instant gratification, the presets that @Jon Kaneshiro sells are about as close as you’ll get, at a hell of a lot lower price than what NDSP wants for the plugin. I bought his FM3 preset last year and recently compared it directly to the plugin. While it’s not a 1:1 match, the overall vibe is absolutely there.

The only thing I’d suggest adding to his preset is some output compression in the Amp block—specifically using the Gain Enhancer—to better emulate the acoustic coupling that’s essential for that classic Mayer/SRV cranked-amp lead tone.
 
199 euros in the EU, then people complain about the Fractal prices here.

I hope it sounds as great as in the demo though.
 
The plug-in, and Mayer himself at least sometimes, does 3 amps in parallel, which current Fractal devices can't do.

I'm not convinced that 3 clean or nearly clean amps in parallel is a huge breakthrough. Seems like a way to complicate clean eq enough to bring out confirmation bias and wishful thinking.
 
I finally got around to messing with the plugin a bit (literally like 30 mins).

Honestly...extremely underwhelming. I was really surprised at how DARK these amps are. Definitely voiced to favor Johns vintage voiced pups. But on my PRS Fiore, they sound very dark. (Marks presets sound pretty good tho, his "Smooth Stage Lead" preset was my favorite by far).

The drives and effects sound great, but the amps themselves leave a lot to be desired imo. The Fractal stuff immediately sound better.
The amps feel really good, however. I do like the sort of mid range "clack" of the amps, it does help with the overall feel imo. But nothing that can't be replicated in the Fractal with input/output eq on the amp block.

The "Justa Boost" (Keeley Katana) is pretty great as an always on thing. But again, nothing that cant be done on the Fractal.

Im honestly not sure I even want to try and replicate the amps. I was kind of expecting to revisit my own tone after hearing these amps, but meh.

I might just try to get some of the pedal/reverb/delay tones and save them as part of my preset library. But other than that, idk. Kind of bummed I didnt like it more.

The Cory Wong Archetype is better imo, and actually what I based my current two amps on (he uses a Dumble and Super Reverb). His Dumble sounds like butt tho lol. He demoed it on some rig rundown and it sounded kinda bad the way he dialed it in. Not to mention the amp was literally designed for someone else. Idk, im rambling now.

TL;DR - meh

Also, big shoutout to @Jon Kaneshiro for his dedication to getting Mayers tones on the Fractal. Honestly his stuff might sound better than the plug haha.
 
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Upon playing with a bit more. I actually did end up revisiting my main preset and made a few very small changes. Mostly how the ODS100 is set (Mark Lettieri’s Dumble preset has the master at 10 for example) and I also copied the 3in1 post eq settings and it honestly makes a huge difference with the amp set darker. The increased bass response of the amps feel really good and I understand why John Mayer sets it that way and then adds some of the high end back with some 3db boosts at about 3 different frequencies.

I really like @Jon Kaneshiro Katana settings as an always on thing. But I’m also using a compressor as it suits my needs. I copied the “Gravity Clean” spring reverb and hall reverb settings, they sound very good imo. And that’s about it. I can upload my preset but it’s honestly not that crazy or unique. If there’s one thing I’ve learned with buying presets and trying others, it’s that I still sound like me and we all know what sound we want in our heads. So although I might have used the Mayer plug as inspiration, it was still my ears that directed the end result, and going between my “new” preset and my previous one, there is only a slight difference anyway.
So I’m not sure what I achieved lol.
 
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