Wish Jazz Amps

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abend said:
thanks for this contribution, it's actually important: to my ears, that's a beautiful clean guitar, not a jazz sound :)
differences: mids are too 'behind', excess of bass and high, but it's the tonal equilibrum in general that is different.
more: can you hear the 'breakingup' attack of the notes? they're around 'crunchy' territory, it shouldnt be there to play jazz.
Infact, she plays beautifully and I love the composition, but it's not jazz, from a sound perspective but also from a musical perspective (harmony, phasing, lack of 'swing', etc).
I really thank you for this, because it's a great example of a great clean sound and music, which likely most of non specific jazz musicians refers to when answering in this thread, but actually it's not what a 'default' jazz guitar player is looking for.
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Well @iaresee sort of covered most of what I wanted to say.

Jazz is a broad term. Yes, I agree this is not a traditional jazz composition. Anyway, the focus was on the tone not the composition. This the sort of tone I go for.

Molly Miller is probably what you would a call hybrid player. She certainly can play traditional jazz though and she does. In fact she has an eponymous jazz trio (she's also a guitarist for Jason Mraz and might still be on staff at some educational institution in California).

I think @AndrewJay may have provided some good hints for you though. I still do believe there are amps already in there that can do what you want.
 
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gibsonash said:
Henriksen sound great in this video , love to have one in the axe for sure !
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That's an incredible good sounding amp!!
I just sold mine, btw to (one of) the greatest italian jazz guitarists that never tried before and now felt in love!
Because I cannot carry around an ampli for some reasons, and hope to replace with my FM3 in some way! :)
 
iaresee said:
It's jazz if the person playing it says it's jazz. And if they say they are playing jazz, it's a jazz tone they're using to play it. Reducto ad absurdbum and all that.

Rather than tell people what's not jazz, stick to posting sound clips you find inspiring and ask for help obtaining those tones. As soon as you start telling people things like "that's not jazz" you've ended any hope of a collaboration. Both because you're wrong and you're being a dick.

There's my $0.02 on how to have productive interactions on this forum.
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sorry but your post is very rude for me, I'm sure you misunderstood something.
If not, you can cancel my account and my threads, I dont want to discuss to this level.
peace
fabio
 
abend said:
sorry but your post is very rude for me, I'm sure you misunderstood something.
If not, you can cancel my account and my threads, I dont want to discuss to this level.
peace
fabio
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That's a bit of an extreme reaction. My advice is worth as much as you've paid for it. But having watched your three threads play out poorly for you, I thought you might want some help there.

The forum can be highly productive if you come at things with a little humility and an open mind.

I'll just be over here listening to my non-swinging, non-clean guitar tone jazz records :)

 
Purplestrats said:
Just a tip: don't waste your breath arguing with people on here. Anything that falls outside [current product, current firmware] is heresy. Suggesting that the product is lacking in any way at all is heresy. [current product, current firmware] is the be all end all, until the next one comes out. It's been like that since forever.

Of course if Cliff Chase should decide to model a Henriksen or Polytone some time, the same people will hail it as the second coming of Christ.

Just leave your wish here and don't bother engaging, seriously.
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This post is completely BS in my opinion.
 
∞Fractals said:
This is 100% correct.… Without those work/resources it cannot happen.

If you want to see these amplifiers modeled, then you need to send Cliff a real amplifier example to model/measure and the factory schematics.
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I am 100% happy to send amps on my own dime, if that's the only barrier and is a real possibility (obviously a given that the amp is unique or highly requested in some way).

I have 3 different lee jackson amps, two of which are rarer and one of which LJ personally modded, for example
 
northern_fox said:
I am 100% happy to send amps on my own dime, if that's the only barrier and is a real possibility (obviously a given that the amp is unique or highly requested in some way).

I have 3 different lee jackson amps, two of which are rarer and one of which LJ personally modded, for example
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Assuredly, not the only barrier… but super generous and critically helpful. 🙏

Cliff has to dedicate the time to measure the amp and build the model. Must include accurate schematics.

I think the rub is that the only one that likely sets his priorities, is either Mrs.FractalAudio or himself.

Where on the list another amp model sits … only he knows. (He is very responsive to user requests compared to any other manufacturers I know.)
 
iaresee said:
That's a bit of an extreme reaction. My advice is worth as much as you've paid for it. But having watched your three threads play out poorly for you, I thought you might want some help there.

The forum can be highly productive if you come at things with a little humility and an open mind.
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^^ THIS ^^
iaresee said:
I'll just be over here listening to my non-swinging, non-clean guitar tone jazz records :)

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Ah, Holdsworth… He did a five-day engagement here years ago, and I booked front and center tickets for every night. It was glorious!
 
∞Fractals said:
Assuredly, not the only barrier… but super generous and critically helpful. 🙏

Cliff has to dedicate the time to measure the amp and build the model. Must include accurate schematics.

I think the rub is that the only one that likely sets his priorities, is either Mrs.FractalAudio or himself.

Where on the list another amp model sits … only he knows. (He is very responsive to user requests compared to any other manufacturers I know.)
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Yes - all makes sense. I'm still a bit new to this forum so it might exist already, but I think what might be helpful for new amp requests (of which I obviously have too), is some kind of guide to amp matching for those of us who aren't subject matter experts. Lots of people respond with "well you can just use XYZ amp and play with XYZ settings, etc, so there's no need for something new" - which if true is of course fine, but most of us don't have the background knowledge to understand how all 50-100 parameters in the amp block actually work together in defining a sound. Tweaking them one at a time doesn't really work in a self explanatory way because of the inter-dependence. So while it may be the case that it's possible to recreate an amp that isn't there (jazz in this instance), it's still realistically impossible for most users to actually do that.

I think a lot of tension comes from this aspect - those who say it should already be possible in theory, and those of us who try for hours but can't actually realize that prospect because despite reading about what every parameter does, the physics of all working together are still complex. Would be really helpful to have a guiding walkthrough of how to tweak in a way that makes sense towards copying a reference amp, instead of shooting in the dark. Anyway, kind of unrelated - thought about making a post to this end. It might alleviate the need for new amps if it were clearer how to use the existing ones for the same purpose. Maybe it exists somewhere already.
 
abendJazz said:
'clean' guitar sound is not 'uncolored'! Color is an Eq/dynamics stuff, it's not a synonimous of 'not distorted'!!
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Perhaps I've misunderstood the term "color" but I've always assumed that "color" or "warmth" was very slight drive on a tube (or circuit or DSP); adding odd and/or even harmonics. Color is more subtle than drive, but working on similar mechanics; like if the transfer curve has a "knee" before actual clipping.

Even though an amp changes the EQ and dynamics of the signal, I had always assumed this was not "color".
 
To me color = EQ. Just like color is different frequencies of light waves, you're filtering different frequencies of sound. That said there's a lot of subjectivity and overlap in many audio descriptors that get used. One man's warm is another's muffled. One man's bright is another's harsh. One man's beefy is another's flubby. It's quite subjective. That's why providing audio or video clips as examples is so much more useful. Regardless of how you would describe it you have a concrete example to compare to.
 
Well, if "color" just means EQ, then this can be accomplished with an EQ if it is simple, or an IR if it is complex.

If the EQ changes with dynamics, then a multiband compressor combined with EQ or an IR might get closer.
 
I suppose this thread is another variant of the wish for a(nother?) Solid State amp-- either for jazz gtr or bass.

I'm sure nothing can be said that hasn't already been hashed out in gory detail. I'm curious about what are the characteristics that might be shared by the most popular solid state amps; and whether they could be captured in a single IR-- and as suggested above, what dynamic and spectral aspects could be simulated with existing blox.
 
If I'm not mistaken, the flavor of jazz amp desired here is super clean and uncompressed, which says to me that the only real variable here is EQ. Doesn't mean I know how exactly to achieve those specific tones, but they've got to be in there somewhere.

Maybe someone who has one can do a tone match, or shoot an IR, so we can start there.

Even just a response plot to look at and/or compare to might help.
 
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iaresee said:
That's a bit of an extreme reaction. My advice is worth as much as you've paid for it. But having watched your three threads play out poorly for you, I thought you might want some help there.

The forum can be highly productive if you come at things with a little humility and an open mind.

I'll just be over here listening to my non-swinging, non-clean guitar tone jazz records :)

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I guess the same little humility and open mind that you get asking help for a classic jazz tone
(btw spending pages of words to describe better what you mean, then asap post examples)
and getting a clip of Alan Holdsworth back.
From someone tagged as 'administrator and moderator'.

Thank you for your precious help: I love Holdsworth but you know, there are BILLIONS of patches out there for any kind device to reproduce that sound.
And it's not out of topic at all: you're a moderator, you can twist the topic to anything you want.

ciao
 
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