It may seem obvious but +4 and -10db can make a huge difference regarding the solid state amp you use.

johnnyspys

johnnyspys

Inspired
I understand that some guitar amps have a effects loop at -10db (for pedals) and some have a +4 for rack gear such as a Lexicon while some lucky people have an effects loop that is switchable.

I bought the pedalbaby and at first I thought the clean broke up too quickly, there was clipping I didn't like, and overall I just didn't like the response. Looked in forums here for solutions and couldn't find them (I am sure they are here but I was probably using the wrong search words) but I found a forum that discussed how a person didn't like the pedal baby and the suggestion was to change their modeler to -10db out. So I tried that and wow, it now sounded amazing with the fractal.

Yes the name of the product is "pedalbaby" so it should operate at -10db, hense why fractal gives us the choice of +4 or -10db in the first two outputs. However, I always thought -10 sounded a bit thin with the Fryette PS2 so I always used +4.
I now have a performance toggle for -10 and +4 so when I switch from the studio Fryette to the live amp (Pedal Baby) I can easily make the switch. I know for the vets here its "well done captain obvious" but I wrote this as one semi-noob to other new users. Before you give up on the amp you are using, try to toggel between -10 and +4 to see which one works best for your situation.
 
johnnyspys said:
I understand that some guitar amps have a effects loop at -10db (for pedals) and some have a +4 for rack gear such as a Lexicon while some lucky people have an effects loop that is switchable.

I bought the pedalbaby and at first I thought the clean broke up too quickly, there was clipping I didn't like, and overall I just didn't like the response. Looked in forums here for solutions and couldn't find them (I am sure they are here but I was probably using the wrong search words) but I found a forum that discussed how a person didn't like the pedal baby and the suggestion was to change their modeler to -10db out. So I tried that and wow, it now sounded amazing with the fractal.

Yes the name of the product is "pedalbaby" so it should operate at -10db, hense why fractal gives us the choice of +4 or -10db in the first two outputs. However, I always thought -10 sounded a bit thin with the Fryette PS2 so I always used +4.
I now have a performance toggle for -10 and +4 so when I switch from the studio Fryette to the live amp (Pedal Baby) I can easily make the switch. I know for the vets here its "well done captain obvious" but I wrote this as one semi-noob to other new users. Before you give up on the amp you are using, try to toggel between -10 and +4 to see which one works best for your situation.
Click to expand...
Sounds like PB volume knob might be set too low - for a modeller power amp you don't generally want it near any distortion / clipping - just clean flat headroom. Should be able to get that at -10 or +4 fron Axfx output controlling volume with Axfx output knob and PB Volume set higher.
 
yek said:
Fryette is a power amp. Pedal Baby is a preamp + power amp.
So it makes sense that the Pedal Baby works best with -10 while the Fryette can handle both.
Click to expand...
I wonder why PBs get recommended for modeller amplification as one would generally not want another, even somewhat easily distorting, preamp in-line post modeller.
 
Woah, it's not an easily distorting pre-amp... it is made for modelers and pedals and it works well for that. I have one, this is not a guess.

Output settings aside, we don't know how the OP has his presets built. They could be very hot on their own terms too.
One person having clipping is not "this unit clips".
 
Yes, but it's not neutral.

Orange: "Inspired by valve amp circuits, we’ve used a Class A, single-ended front end design. Forget sterile-sounding Solid State amps, the Pedal Baby 100 keeps all of your tone’s mojo, then adds a bit more.".
 
Yek, have you played one? I'm guessing no. It's pretty flat.
No, I haven't measured it, but it's not suddenly colored vs the SD700 I keep next to when I need stereo for the same presets.

The argument that the designer makes is about perceived volume and feel. He says it's flat when set to flat.

Listen to the guy who designed it.
 
FPFL said:
Woah, it's not an easily distorting pre-amp... it is made for modelers and pedals and it works well for that. I have one, this is not a guess.

Output settings aside, we don't know how the OP has his presets built. They could be very hot on their own terms too.
One person having clipping is not "this unit clips".
Click to expand...
take it easy man - read my post - I didn't say it clips - just asking as I've considered getting one (actually 2) - thought it was a flatish SS power amp only which is what is often recommended for modellers.

Regardless, one will typically not want one's modeller amplification set up to distort if using the modeller's pre and p.a. modelling actively. That's the crux of why I posted initally.
 
Last edited:
I'm not upset, it's all good. Both the things you implied are mistaken, that's all.
It works great with my FM9 and always has. It can be thunderously loud without clipping issues.
 
yek said:
Fryette is a power amp. Pedal Baby is a preamp + power amp.
So it makes sense that the Pedal Baby works best with -10 while the Fryette can handle both.
Click to expand...
Agreed it makes sense now, but there are plenty of forums that have people spew misinformation. so yeah I feel dumb for not thinking this is built for running pedals. The thing is the Freyette is strange because the input sounds best a +4 for clean sounds and for me kinda breaks up too soon at -10. I don’t think I run my unit hot as I have setup my sounds based on amalgamations from Leon Todd, Cooper Carter, and some videos where guitar techs talk about how they set their fractals. So -15 output, less input gain for the clean amps. I want pristine cleans with zero breakup, and my rock tones are many as heavy as somewhere between The Cult and maybe Alice In Chains. When I say I don’t want break up in my cleans I mean Jazz chorus, with delays, reverbs and other effects that can add to the gain stage. I basically want a fender twin operating with a 4ohm load at 2 1/2 which is very loud and very clean even with humbuckers. So I don’t want edge of breakup clean, I want clean clean.
As a side note…the orange is much louder than my Fryette. I still prefer my Freyette in the studio (for now) but after a month with the pedal baby I prefer it live. The fact that there are easy to use eq controls that I can use to adjust my live settings makes it easy and flexible to adjust on the fly and it seems to cut through the mix better. It might be voodoo but I am a big fan of the pedal baby…..which shocks me. I thought for sure I would hate it and return it.
 
Last edited:
There's nothing inherently better about one vs the other. Their main job is LOUDER and low noise... so If you are jiving with one, go with that.
 
Good original post, because while many might feel +4 vs -10 dB might seem a small difference, it really isn't. Every 3 dB is roughly a doubling or halving of level, depending on plus or minus, so 14 dB is a very big step in either direction. So far it has always been relatively obvious to me when I have the wrong output level, but some mixers (of the electronic, and also human type) seem pretty much determined to prove me wrong in that.

Liam
 
While there is no technically no difference in tone between the two in most use cases, how the signal is processed and gain staging with some external devices can result in differences in tone.
 
JoKeR III said:
While there is no technically no difference in tone between the two in most use cases, how the signal is processed and gain staging with some external devices can result in differences in tone.
Click to expand...
yessir - currently fiddling with 4CM to a load-box'd amp head. +4 to the amp's fx return vs -10 makes a big difference to what comes out of the load box's line out.
 
LiamH said:
Good original post, because while many might feel +4 vs -10 dB might seem a small difference, it really isn't. Every 3 dB is roughly a doubling or halving of level, depending on plus or minus, so 14 dB is a very big step in either direction. So far it has always been relatively obvious to me when I have the wrong output level, but some mixers (of the electronic, and also human type) seem pretty much determined to prove me wrong in that.

Liam
Click to expand...

+6 dB is twice the signal level (voltage). +3 dB is twice the power (watts). Also, you're forgetting about the difference between dBu and dBV. They use different reference voltages. -10 dBV = about -7.78 dBu, so the difference between +4 dBu and -10 dBV is about 11.78 dB, not 14 dB.
 
Last edited:
mr_fender said:
+6 dB is twice the signal level (voltage). +3 dB is twice the power (watts). Also, you're forgetting about the difference between dBu and dBV. They use different reference voltages. -10 dBV = about -7.78 dBu, so the difference between +4 dBu and -10 dBV is about 11.78 dB, not 14 dB.
Click to expand...
Ooh, I had never noticed they are on different base scales, thanks for the clarification. (Never had too much to do with dBu's, but quite a lot with dBV's in the past, and you are right that I was considering power as perceived level difference, which of course it isn't).

Even if it's 11.78 dB, that is still a big difference in perceived level, which was the point I was hoping to make. Probably "pro" line level getting on for 4 times as loud as "consumer" line level?

Liam
 
Yeah, twice is loud is a little hard to quantify exactly since hearing is somewhat subjective, but generally I think 10 dB is considered twice as loud in SPL since our hearing is logarithmic. It's definitely a noticeably big jump in level for sure.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom