Is there such a thing as "Reverse Fletcher Munson"??

I guess not !
Fletcher Munson refers to the human hearing.

Why not use output 1 for PA system and output 2 for monitoring ?
Then you can use different eq 

boltrecords said:
So for a while now I've been having a tough time translating my FRFR tones to a live FOH setting. I always dial in my tones with my RCF monitor cranked. Probably 3/4 or more volume. Just to make sure its at gig volume. But the problem I'm having is not my monitor at a gig. The rcf always sounds great. It's the FoH speakers that always sound weak and lifeless. And it not the same gig. This is at a majority of gigs with all different types of speaker setups.

But one thing that I notice is that when in running a sound check, the FOH speakers don't seem to be pushed as hard as my RCF is. So is it possible that I'm getting a reversed fletcher Munson? Am I dialing in the tones on an almost fully pushed speaker and then the FoH speakers are not having to push as hard so my tones end up weaker?

Any thoughts on this?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
Click to expand...
 
Bill Piersall said:
I'm on 15.05. Use Double/Vibroverb and Plexi 100 Normal primarily. Also using AC20DLX and JTM45. Using free AC20DLX UR IR and the /13 1x12 Cab as well. WISH /13 1x12 WAS ULTRA RES...just a subtle hint, lol. Great cab.
I've reset Amp Block, All Presets etc. Have not reloaded FW. If I use a gain pedal (not often) I favor the RC and AC Boosts, Zendrive, Lovepedal or BB Preamp. Don't run high gain, mostly pushed cleans, blues, classic rock stuff.
Click to expand...

I am not sure of anyone wake but I did perceive some changes to the plexi gain over for a while now prob around fw 13/14
 
There are so many things possibly going on here that the only way to resolve it is to eliminate variables one-by-one.

The first suggestion to swap the 1/2 outputs is a great start. When you do so, there is no point in keeping the 1/2 levels matched. The stepped attenuator on the output should be impossibly linear, so give FOH as hot a signal as they need, then adjust your stage volume to taste.

Next up, if most places you're playing have Yamaha BR-Series, Peavey PR-Series, and JBL JRX-Series 1x15 or 2x15 tops over subs, that's likely another major part of the issue. The RCF you are using I believe is a 12" driver (?), and is in an entirely different price and performance class than those rigs. A 2x15 box over subs is basically equivalent to having a pair of high subs over a low sub with a horn thrown in there somewhere. I'd have been surprised if it WASN'T midrange-deficient. The 12 in your RCF allows for a higher crossover point that smooths out the midrange, so that is likely another part of what you're hearing.

Finally, there's the problem that is often discussed when people first try to crank bedroom/solo presets in a band context - what sounds good solo'd may be woefully inappropriate for the overall band mix. How many times do we hear that a "killer guitar tone" in a full-band mix sounds "thin and lifeless" when solo'd? He may just be carving out some room for the bass and vocals.

It's also entirely possible that the kick drum, bass guitar, and vocals are getting 95% of the PA's bandwidth due to the soundman's approach, and a weak tone is all that's left once the mix is put together. The only solution at that point is to bring your own rig and have your sound guy run it the way you want it run.

Since you're getting the sound you want to hear out of your RCF at gig volume, I doubt there are any settings (short of outputs 1 & 2 not matching) that are the culprit. It's more likely something entirely beyond your control. You can crank the kids on the output EQ, but the sound guy is just going to cut them back out again.

It may very we'll be beyond your control, and all you can do at that point is just enjoy your awesome tone on stage, rock out, put on an amazing show, and get the audience into it, regardless of how they're hearing your tone.

:D
 
mitsu13gman said:
There are so many things possibly going on here that the only way to resolve it is to eliminate variables one-by-one.

The first suggestion to swap the 1/2 outputs is a great start. When you do so, there is no point in keeping the 1/2 levels matched. The stepped attenuator on the output should be impossibly linear, so give FOH as hot a signal as they need, then adjust your stage volume to taste.

Next up, if most places you're playing have Yamaha BR-Series, Peavey PR-Series, and JBL JRX-Series 1x15 or 2x15 tops over subs, that's likely another major part of the issue. The RCF you are using I believe is a 12" driver (?), and is in an entirely different price and performance class than those rigs. A 2x15 box over subs is basically equivalent to having a pair of high subs over a low sub with a horn thrown in there somewhere. I'd have been surprised if it WASN'T midrange-deficient. The 12 in your RCF allows for a higher crossover point that smooths out the midrange, so that is likely another part of what you're hearing.

Finally, there's the problem that is often discussed when people first try to crank bedroom/solo presets in a band context - what sounds good solo'd may be woefully inappropriate for the overall band mix. How many times do we hear that a "killer guitar tone" in a full-band mix sounds "thin and lifeless" when solo'd? He may just be carving out some room for the bass and vocals.

It's also entirely possible that the kick drum, bass guitar, and vocals are getting 95% of the PA's bandwidth due to the soundman's approach, and a weak tone is all that's left once the mix is put together. The only solution at that point is to bring your own rig and have your sound guy run it the way you want it run.

Since you're getting the sound you want to hear out of your RCF at gig volume, I doubt there are any settings (short of outputs 1 & 2 not matching) that are the culprit. It's more likely something entirely beyond your control. You can crank the kids on the output EQ, but the sound guy is just going to cut them back out again.

It may very we'll be beyond your control, and all you can do at that point is just enjoy your awesome tone on stage, rock out, put on an amazing show, and get the audience into it, regardless of how they're hearing your tone.

:D
Click to expand...

What you said about the mains causing problems when compared to my RCF makes total Sense. That's what I was originally thinking. It seems the only real way to get a good tone in a live setting is to dial in the presets in those types of speakers. And in a band setting. Unfortunately I don't have that luxury. I would love to be able to not only dial in tones but rehearse while setup for a live show. But we don't have that gear available and rarely have time to even eat before a gig let alone work on our live mix and presets.

But it not only that my presets are thin and lifeless through these speakers, they also seem to lose the compression, feel and even overall gain of my presets when compared to the rcf. Possibly due to the lack of mid range and bass heavy style of the speakers and subs. Once again, seems like i should be using that type of speaker to dial in presets vs my rcf. May make things a little more comparable during a live performance.

I can't just increase my mid range on my presets. I have no way to know how much To increase them without a way to test it. I already have my sound very mid range heavy through the rcf.

FYI I've lately been using the afd100 2 amp and have the gain at about 3.5/10, bass at 4, mid at 6.5, treble at 5.5. Added a little presence and depth to taste. Master is at 6. I use the new TV 2 Ir.

Ill try and post a preset but its very simple.

I use a les Paul with super distortion in the bridge.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
The NX 12 SMA is boosting the lows a bit and has a light roll off in the highs. That's something that separates it from many other products. Many other monitors and FOH-systems have rather flat lows (avoiding woofiness) and a boost in the highs (allowing for enough highs even off axus). Maybe that's why you hear a different sound from the PA system.
 
I think I'm going to buy a powered speaker Main and try dialing in my presets on that for the next show. See if that makes a difference at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
Yamaha dsr115 is what I'm looking at grabbing. Any other suggestions? Looking for something average quality. Not low but not high end. Something a bar venue would likely have


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
boltrecords said:
Yamaha dsr115 is what I'm looking at grabbing. Any other suggestions? Looking for something average quality. Not low but not high end. Something a bar venue would likely have Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
Click to expand...

Bolt records,

I have a pair of the DSR112s as mains. They are beasts, for sure. If all you are doing is looking for a speaker to dial in on, the 115 seems like overkill. Get a good set of monitors like Equators or something, and make sure they are in a room that isn't too problematic.

Fwiw, the Yamaha DXR series (even the 10") are also excellent, and less expensive. A pair of the DXR10s would hold up very well as a stereo rig in most cases. Or get a CLR...hard to go wrong there.
 
4u7emy4a.jpg


So I went out and bought a Yamaha DXR 15 today. Somewhat middle of the road powered main from what I was able to see and hear. But I didn't spend much time comparing.

Now I pretty much came to two possible conclusions. Either the sound guys at all these venues are completely messing up the Eq on my channel which is screwing my guitar tone, or there something getting messed up running the axe through the mixing board. I can't think of any other conclusion as to why the presets would sound so Drastically different at my gigs.

This yamaha main is just slightly fuller and bassier than my rcf but it still sounds damn good. And I have the thing cranked. Even at lower volumes it sounds good. And this is a 15" 2 way powered main. Pretty good size speaker.

Overall the two speakers sound fairly similar to each other

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
I monitor with a DXR-10 and it sounds 100x better than the mains we use with our band. (Mackie Thump-15's IIRC)

Sadly my gear budget is higher than the band's is hehe. I just tell our sound guy to take a listen to the monitors and then eq the direct FOH sound to match as well as possible. We get it close enough for rock n roll.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom