Is there any legit reasons why only playing in one key on every song is a bad idea?

[henryrobinett]

For me personally playing or listening to music without any key changes would be terribly boring. Like wearing the same clothes everyday, or the same colors. Or playing the same tempo without variation. The more one learns about music the more one can apply variation, shifts of tonal centers, keys, modes, chords, time signatures, tempos, dynamics, . . . and not be stuck or limited by ones own lack of knowledge or application of that knowledge. Variation is the spice of life.

 

[Yngwiemalmsteen]

yes, changing mode while still using the same "root" note will give you a different flavour. changing key and keeping the same mode will keep the same flavour, but will create a moment of transition at the point of changing key, which will have an emotional resonance. changing key and mode will do both.

all your questions could be answered by simply listening and analysing to some of the music that has been recorded over the last 70 years. rock and pop music on the whole is not particularly "adventurous", but there are some great examples out there of more sophisticated writing (abba, beatles, bacharach...the list goes on). progressive music and "classical" music will employ these techniques in abundance, so branch out and listen to some different styles.

if this was a painting forum and we were discussing painting techniques, asking what colours you should use would seem to be a bit of a strange question, wouldn't it? you'd realise that the colours you use in a painting help to express your creative intent. expert painters on the forum would probably advise you to go to a gallery and look at some paintings. compare and contrast as many artists as you can, absorb and learn. understand why they made different creative choices, used different techniques and why you have different emotional reactions to their work.

talking about music in the way we are here, is fine in certain respects, because we're getting down to the "nuts and bolts" of it, but music is a creative endeavour and ultimately is learned by doing. so write some music. see what happens when you use certain techniques like changing mode, or changing key, or both. listen to other musicians do it and figure out why it works for them in that context. steal from the best and incorporate those ideas into your own music.

I would say that my style is intended to be mostly like the style of yngwie malmsteen, but mix in the more agressive and melodic style of randy rhoads, and then also mix in some of the style of steve vai on passiin and warfare as well.... a combination of those three styles to different degrees is all im interested in musically. I dont care to adventure any further outside of that combination. Which actually qhen combined in a certain way makes fir my own unique style. But thats where im coming from and trying to go musically. Even if one did play each song in a different key, there is still but only seven notes to work with, so u gotta be very creative whether u use one key owwor all keys to keep your instrumental songs from getting monotonous.

 

[Yngwiemalmsteen]

For me personally playing or listening to music without any key changes would be terribly boring. Like wearing the same clothes everyday, or the same colors. Or playing the same tempo without variation. The more one learns about music the more one can apply variation, shifts of tonal centers, keys, modes, chords, time signatures, tempos, dynamics, . . . and not be stuck or limited by ones own lack of knowledge or application of that knowledge. Variation is the spice of life.

Yeah I can see where some would like more diversity. But yngwie dosent sound too musically adventurous to me, does he to you? He seems to stick to familiars ground mostly over his career of cds. Am I wrong? He is one of my biggest influences so maybe thats why im not as diverse, idk.

Yjm

 

[barhrecords]

Yes, I was thinking of some of those same things but was unsure.

I prefer to play in e or e flat, because it makes sense to me. I like having the lowest note on guitar e and then the highest be a e.

It also seems so much more streamlined and effcient to just master everything in one key, then to only be able to play half ass in all the other keys so to speak. Id rather place all that effort itd take to be that comfy with other keys and put it in other areas of guitar that I will actually use often. I know the key of e like the back of my hand. And I realize all I gotta do is move up frets to change key and all the pattern stays the same, but still, going from a to c sharp requires me to think more about where things are on the board as opposed to just staying in e where my mind can be on autopilot and I feel more free and unlimited in my improvising. Instead of stumbling over where im at on the board.
Just figure the path of least resistance in music is best. Only focus on whats really most important and useful to a particular style. Id rather be a master at one single thing, than a jack of all trades thats good but not a master at other keys. U know. Like I dont need to know jazz scales, as its not gonna help my neoclassical metal sound that great.

I agree with focusing your time wisely. Makes total sense.

If you ever get big enough to play with an orchestra, f'em and make them all play in E concert! That's what YJM does.

 

[Yngwiemalmsteen]

I agree with focusing your time wisely. Makes total sense.

If you ever get big enough to play with an orchestra, f'em and make them all play in E concert! That's what YJM does.

Yeah. Right? Hahaha I love that yngwie orchestra japan concerto he did all in e flat. Thats actually what got me to thinking about this whole subject!!! I am obsessed with that video concert, I have watched it two hours every day now for at least the last six months, for real, no kidfing! Its mt fave thing yngwie has ever done! I like to compose mostly slower power ballads, so his slow adagio song on there is prolly my fave.

 

[Yngwiemalmsteen]

So just to be more specific and expand further on my style, and the combo that makes it.... the slow classical ballads yngwie does like adagio... steve vai and specifically his songs blue powder, for the love of god, and tender surrender.... and the spotlight solo randy rhoads does live after suicide solution, and his solos in mr crowley and believer. That's really all I care about when it comes to music, I can narrow it all down to just tbose few specific peices by those three musicians.... thats the music that moves me the most, and the styles of those soecific peices of music is what I base everything I do on, or at least try to anyway. I figure its important for me to be specific, because for example vai has a ton of cds the last twenty years, but those are the only three songs of his I really, really like. And yngwie plays faster usual than I care for and I think he over does his use if arpeggios, so in my style I slow it down more often and also do arpeggiis and sweeps less often, and as far as rhoads I like his combination if legato and alternate picking in that solo as well as his melodic nature, his solos are not so fast that u can remember them and hum them, plus I like his metal rhythms and chords he incorporates in with his leads and solos. So that's the aspects and specifics of what I like of those players and what im combining and incorporating into my style. I also like vais use of lydian as a substitute for regular major ionian. Sounds more exitic.

 

[luke]

Everything comes off as more intellectual when formed into an endless run-on paragraph, where spelling, grammar and utilization of punctuation is minimal.

 

[Yngwiemalmsteen]

Well im on my phone right now, its not as easy to type here vs my desktop.

 

[barhrecords]

Yeah. Right? Hahaha I love that yngwie orchestra japan concerto he did all in e flat. Thats actually what got me to thinking about this whole subject!!! I am obsessed with that video concert, I have watched it two hours every day now for at least the last six months, for real, no kidfing! Its mt fave thing yngwie has ever done! I like to compose mostly slower power ballads, so his slow adagio song on there is prolly my fave.

I watch that video fairly often too but not obsessed with YJM and his playing per se. I love his approach and swagger though.

And I love that he maintained the swagger even after gaining the weight, I.e. the G3 video. He looks like William Shatner stuffed into too small Spandex and wearing wig. Also a big Shatner fan too.

I forget the name of my favorite YJM DVD, it's not the orchestra one, it's one with Rising Force in their heyday. I think it's in Japan too though.

What I think is really cool is, his guitar tone is really not that remarkable. But his technique and swagger are so strong, his actual amp tone does not even matter to me. Same for Randy Rhoads for me too. Meh on his amp tone but totally dig the technique and swagger.

 

[Rick]

the G3 video. He looks like William Shatner stuffed into too small Spandex and wearing wig.

That's funny. Accurate, but funny. I have that video.

We older than our twenties guitarists have to support one another.

 

[Yngwiemalmsteen]

I like randy rhoads tone on the live tribute cd the best, my fave tone ever, love the huge midrange. Also on yjm tone I like how he had such a clear tone even though its distorted theres such clarity, which I think the single coils have a lot ro do with that part of yjm tone. I like both their tones even though they are two different types of tones. Id like to see that show if u find a link. I havent been able to dind a lot of high quality video of yjm as goof as the orchestra one so would like to see more.

 

[barhrecords]

I like randy rhoads tone on the live tribute cd the best, my fave tone ever, love the huge midrange. Also on yjm tone I like how he had such a clear tone even though its distorted theres such clarity, which I think the single coils have a lot ro do with that part of yjm tone. I like both their tones even though they are two different types of tones. Id like to see that show if u find a link. I havent been able to dind a lot of high quality video of yjm as goof as the orchestra one so would like to see more.

I believe I have 3 DVD's of YJM including the G3 one.

I collect music DVD's and typically receive several from my wife, kids for Christmas, birthday and what not.

 

[BigD1977]

I agree, that changing key in a song, modulating could be useful, but isn't that the same as say we are in key of e. Harmonic minor, if in a song I start playing phygian isnt that the same really as going from e harmonic minor to a harmonic minor?

Just a small point, but there is no harmonic minor key. It's just minor. You're right though in that playing with E phrygian mode will wield the same notes as A natural minor scale. Problem is that these two harmonic contexts don't have the same cadences or progressions to reflect the differing tonal centres so shouldn't really be treated as interchangeable.

 

[Bojangles]

5th mode of the harmonic minor, get your flamenco on

 

[Yngwiemalmsteen]

Just a small point, but there is no harmonic minor key. It's just minor. You're right though in that playing with E phrygian mode will wield the same notes as A natural minor scale. Problem is that these two harmonic contexts don't have the same cadences or progressions to reflect the differing tonal centres so shouldn't really be treated as interchangeable.

Oh now you are confusing me... no difference between aeolian and harmonic minor? I thought the thing that made the difference was changing the d note to d sharp in e harmonic minor, using the leading tone instead of the regualr d you'd play in regular minor/aeolian.

 

[Yngwiemalmsteen]

Of course maybe you meant as in key? Where in that sense I was talking about the scale.

 

[Yngwiemalmsteen]

Just a small point, but there is no harmonic minor key. It's just minor. You're right though in that playing with E phrygian mode will wield the same notes as A natural minor scale. Problem is that these two harmonic contexts don't have the same cadences or progressions to reflect the differing tonal centres so shouldn't really be treated as interchangeable.

Yeah I think we are on the same page, I understand the phygian to only be interchangeable dependent upon what chord is being played behind it.

 

[luke]

People tend to use harmonic minor over the V7 chord in minor.

In E minor the five chord diatonically would be Bmin7, but a minor 7 five chord has no pull so you swap it to B7.

Of course you can build diatonic modes with any scale:

Ionian #5
Dorian #4
Phrygian natural 3
Lydian #9
Etc.....

 

[henryrobinett]

Yeah I can see where some would like more diversity. But yngwie dosent sound too musically adventurous to me, does he to you? He seems to stick to familiars ground mostly over his career of cds. Am I wrong? He is one of my biggest influences so maybe thats why im not as diverse, idk.

Yjm

I don't know. I'm not that interested in Yngwie. I find there's a dead end when I define myself in terms of a single player. Music is a huge field. Too big to limit oneself. I mean thats just me.

 

[henryrobinett]

Just a small point, but there is no harmonic minor key. It's just minor. You're right though in that playing with E phrygian mode will wield the same notes as A natural minor scale. Problem is that these two harmonic contexts don't have the same cadences or progressions to reflect the differing tonal centres so shouldn't really be treated as interchangeable.

Huh? There most definitely IS a harmonic minor scale. And a melodic minor scale. They're different from the phryigian or aeolian modes due to the 5th, which like all real scales is dominant, so it has a major 3rd instead of the minor third in those modes.