Is there a negative to using Cab block Level for solo boost? How do you create your boost for solos?

[ChristThePhone]

As long as there aren't any non-linear effects like drive, amp, or compressor blocks following the cab block there's no difference between using the cab output level and a dedicated null filter block boosting the level. I just find it more obvious and convenient using a dedicated filter than attaching a control switch or scene controller to the cab blocks level modifier.

 

[Molekiller]

I remember the scene level method falling out of favor for some (@smitfar) due to its effect on reverb and delay tails (if in use).

I think if you control the level of the whole scene, the tail volume jumps up or down as soon as you change scenes. If you have any other block (filter, cab, etc) controlling volume before the reverb and delay, the reverb and delay tails don’t change until you start playing again.

 

[hbucker]

I still maintain that there are no rules. Do what you want to get the sounds you need. Period.

Even though the AX8 is an entirely new approach to creating the tones we all love, I still try to keep my approach to these things as standardized as I can in order to create tones the ways I've usually done it with my traditional gear. For me, that's with an EQ in the loop. This has always worked like a charm for me and burns almost no calories to achieve. Bump a few key frequencies and my lead tone pops right out in the mix.

Arguably, no one has ever boosted their cab volume with traditional gear in order to achieve a better mix for solos. That doesn't mean it's wrong, or that you shouldn't do it. It's just something that one might try with the AX8.

Experiment and report your results back to the group. The AX8 is complex enough for me that I don't have a desire to reinvent the wheel when I don't need to.

Your results may vary.

Good luck.

 

[Limebranch]

I remember the scene level method falling out of favor for some (@smitfar) due to its effect on reverb and delay tails (if in use).

I think if you control the level of the whole scene, the tail volume jumps up or down as soon as you change scenes. If you have any other block (filter, cab, etc) controlling volume before the reverb and delay, the reverb and delay tails don’t change until you start playing again.

I can verify this - made my scene changes sound really weird. Would recommend changing the level in a block instead.

 

[macfly]

I still maintain that there are no rules. Do what you want to get the sounds you need. Period.

Even though the AX8 is an entirely new approach to creating the tones we all love, I still try to keep my approach to these things as standardized as I can in order to create tones the ways I've usually done it with my traditional gear. For me, that's with an EQ in the loop. This has always worked like a charm for me and burns almost no calories to achieve. Bump a few key frequencies and my lead tone pops right out in the mix.

Arguably, no one has ever boosted their cab volume with traditional gear in order to achieve a better mix for solos. That doesn't mean it's wrong, or that you shouldn't do it. It's just something that one might try with the AX8.

Experiment and report your results back to the group. The AX8 is complex enough for me that I don't have a desire to reinvent the wheel when I don't need to.

Your results may vary.

Good luck.

That makes sense--it's set up to use like a real rig, and the deeper I get in the rabbit hole, the more I see that things interact as they do in the real world. While I still don't understand the problem I was having, the more I read here and the more I think about it, boosting at the cab was a weird idea. It was convenient because I was using A/B to trigger both pre- and post-amp boosts.

I have tested each of Leon's ideas and find I like the PEQ best--for the reason you've stated...it seems to really make a solo sit on top of the mix...thusfar only at home with mp3 for "band mix." With my FX8 and Dirty Shirley, I was using a filter block, but, perhaps because I'm listening more critically in earbuds, I don't like how woofy that gets. With the PEQ I'm boosting 2K by 2dB and blocking below 80Hz, while setting the output at +2dB. That gives the same volume as 3dB on a filter, but cuts much better.

Unfortunately I don't have a gig now until early January but will try it with this soundman then.

 

[Moves]

That makes sense--it's set up to use like a real rig, and the deeper I get in the rabbit hole, the more I see that things interact as they do in the real world. While I still don't understand the problem I was having, the more I read here and the more I think about it, boosting at the cab was a weird idea. It was convenient because I was using A/B to trigger both pre- and post-amp boosts.

I have tested each of Leon's ideas and find I like the PEQ best--for the reason you've stated...it seems to really make a solo sit on top of the mix...thusfar only at home with mp3 for "band mix." With my FX8 and Dirty Shirley, I was using a filter block, but, perhaps because I'm listening more critically in earbuds, I don't like how woofy that gets. With the PEQ I'm boosting 2K by 2dB and blocking below 80Hz, while setting the output at +2dB. That gives the same volume as 3dB on a filter, but cuts much better.

Unfortunately I don't have a gig now until early January but will try it with this soundman then.

I use the PEQ block as well and have it's controller set as the SWITCH in my Volume pedal. Works great!

 

[macfly]

I have learned a lot in the last couple of weeks. No gigs to try the solo thing out but I have also been having trouble with folks wanting more than 3dB boost for my solos and me refusing because 3dB was already killing me in with the IEM set up. I have set up the filter block to boost and also to spike up around 2k. I added an FX Loop at the end of the chain so I can control the level to my ears and maintain whatever boost the FOH wants.

 

[scottp]

In my case since day one where I have been using 2 amps X/Y, I have always used the cab block to volume level my scenes.
I typically have 4 scenes, clean to lead.
I have never heard any negative tone difference, matching or leveling my scenes to be at the volume I need.
A typical preset is serial routing..
PEQ > AMP > CAB > FILTER 1 > DELAY > REVERB

So you guys are hearing that much of a difference?

 

[Paultergeist]

This may be a dumb question, but I’ll ask anyway: I am just scratching the surface of using the AX8-Edit software, and at times, I would like to grab a screen shot (as you have done here) and include it in a forum post as I ask for clarification. Can you explain to me how I can grab a screen shot of the Edit software and include the image as part of a forum post?

Thanks for any guidance.

Edit: I was trying to include Macfly’s post from above.....

 

[unix-guy]

This may be a dumb question, but I’ll ask anyway: I am just scratching the surface of using the AX8-Edit software, and at times, I would like to grab a screen shot (as you have done here) and include it in a forum post as I ask for clarification. Can you explain to me how I can grab a screen shot of the Edit software and include the image as part of a forum post?

Thanks for any guidance.

Edit: I was trying to include Macfly’s post from above.....

Depends on what OS you are using... On newer Windows, you can use Snipping Tool then save to a file and upload, or old school by pressing CTRL-ALT-PrintScreen to capture the screen into the buffer and then paste.

 

[Adder]

I remember the scene level method falling out of favor for some (@smitfar) due to its effect on reverb and delay tails (if in use).

I think if you control the level of the whole scene, the tail volume jumps up or down as soon as you change scenes. If you have any other block (filter, cab, etc) controlling volume before the reverb and delay, the reverb and delay tails don’t change until you start playing again.

Interesting. But isnt this exactly why the Cab should be the last block in the chain? Just like a real set up. ? Adding a filter block just adds to cpu load surely.
When I see blocks inserted after the Cab, it kinda looks funny.

 

[unix-guy]

Interesting. But isnt this exactly why the Cab should be the last block in the chain? Just like a real set up. ? Adding a filter block just adds to cpu load surely.
When I see blocks inserted after the Cab, it kinda looks funny.

No... And there is no real reason to put the Cab block last unless you run a mixed FRFR + guitar cab setup.

In a recording setup, many effects are added in post, which means after the mic'd cab.

 

[Adder]

No... And there is no real reason to put the Cab block last unless you run a mixed FRFR + guitar cab setup.

In a recording setup, many effects are added in post, which means after the mic'd cab.

OK so then what exactly is the official means of controlling output volume to the PA or DAW then? A filter block for the sole purpose of volume control.? That sounds like a bodge work around idea to me.
I notice that the Moke presets I have, all control by Cab block. Which makes sense to me. So I have always done exactly that.

A recording setup is a bit different tho, if your gonna add effects after its out of the Ax8, well that's someone else's baby. But actually in the AX 8? What benefit do you get by adding stuff after the stereo cabs?
unless your talking live recording. Changing volume into a DAW may cause flirting with + 0 dB. A no no. I record Rythm and lead at same vol into my DAW and mix volumes afterwards.

Last point. Having a mixed FRFR and Guitar cab setup has its own set of issues due to the fact that, to my knowledge, the amp Sim includes pre and power amp algorithms. Shoving that signal into a guitar power amp + cab uses another amp on top of the sim. You can disable the power amp part of the sim but then the FRFR ain't so pretty sounding.
New to all this stuff so apologies if I have missed something.

 

[unix-guy]

OK so then what exactly is the official means of controlling output volume to the PA or DAW then? A filter block for the sole purpose of volume control.? That sounds like a bodge work around idea to me.
I notice that the Moke presets I have, all control by Cab block. Which makes sense to me. So I have always done exactly that.

A recording setup is a bit different tho, if your gonna add effects after its out of the Ax8, well that's someone else's baby. But actually in the AX 8? What benefit do you get by adding stuff after the stereo cabs?
unless your talking live recording. Changing volume into a DAW may cause flirting with + 0 dB. A no no. I record Rythm and lead at same vol into my DAW and mix volumes afterwards.

Last point. Having a mixed FRFR and Guitar cab setup has its own set of issues due to the fact that, to my knowledge, the amp Sim includes pre and power amp algorithms. Shoving that signal into a guitar power amp + cab uses another amp on top of the sim. You can disable the power amp part of the sim but then the FRFR ain't so pretty sounding.
New to all this stuff so apologies if I have missed something.

The general recommendation is to use Amp block Level control for adjusting volume.

Then you can use a Filter block post Amp for a boost. I use one on the Axe Fx III with a scene controller so I can fine tune scene levels.

Also, I was not talking about recording, I was pointing out that it's very common for effects to be post Cab... Remember that these units model a recording environment, in that you can model the whole chain including post cab (mic) effects.

 

[unix-guy]

Last point. Having a mixed FRFR and Guitar cab setup has its own set of issues due to the fact that, to my knowledge, the amp Sim includes pre and power amp algorithms. Shoving that signal into a guitar power amp + cab uses another amp on top of the sim. You can disable the power amp part of the sim but then the FRFR ain't so pretty sounding.
New to all this stuff so apologies if I have missed something.

I'm talking about a solid state power amp...

 

[Adder]

After clicking around on this forum I have resigned myself to the fact that it looks like there tons of ways to get volume boost with varying changes to tone. Filter block, PEQ. Amp, Cab block and then there's the......Volume block.
Choose your weapon. Lol.
Me, I'm still leaning towards a separate scene for lead/solos with changes to amp drive and delay for recording and added cab volume tweakies for live.