Is there a consensus headphone choice?

[jeffgoobs]

I’m very interested in the Ollo S5X for reasons that are a little off the beaten track, at least for this forum; I’m heavily into surround. Right now, my studio is running 7.1, and I’m in the process of adding an Emotiva six-channel amp and six height speakers for Atmos 7.1.6.

I use a pair of Neumann NDH30s for most of my initial tracking, and I love them. But one of the S5X’s raisons d'être is to resolve spatial information (as they say on their site, “binaural effects and down mix”) when mixing multichannel immersive audio.

I’m absolutely sold on and vested in what I think of as real surround … multiple speakers in a live room. But let’s face it … outside of a theater, the way most people will experience something like Apple’s version of Atmos spatial audio will be with a set of headphones. And while I’ll continue to base my mixes on “speakers in the room,” the idea of using the S5Xs to tweak the binaural experience really appeals to me.

For anyone interested in exploring Dolby Atmos without investing in a dedicated multichannel speaker system, check out Fiedler Audio’s free version of their Dolby Atmos Composer software, Dolby Atmos Composer Essential. It will let you create binaural Atmos mixes with your headphones, no matter which DAW you’re using. It will also clarify why I think the S5Xs could be a genuine boon for the binaural versions of my surround mixes.

(Sorry – I know this is off-topic for an AXE–FX III discussion, but since this thread was here, it seemed appropriate.)

I also have an actual Atmos mixing studio - mine is a 7.2.6 set-up, so I can relate with the use-case. I use the S5Xs in tandem with the Waves Nx Head Tracker and the Waves Nx software when double checking Spatial Audio mixes, etc. OLLO partnered with Waves for this: https://olloaudio.com/blogs/ollo-bl...udio-integrating-waves-nx-3d-audio-technology (I also have Sonarworks and Realphones, but the head tracker is so accurate with Waves Nx that it's an unfair comparison.)

 

[TheRedDevil]

Attached you can find comparison mesaurements from OLLO incl. AKGs, BeyerDynamic, .... incl. influence with USC files:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...rements_calibration_included.pdf?v=1701436897
E.g. BD DT770 are HIFI and USC influence is not dramatic.
I would say 100% flat is no headphone, the question is just, how much calibration is necessary and is it still possible/useful and all measurments are only as good as the measurement equipment. Well, all measurements are different like every ear and taste ...

 

[jeffgoobs]

Attached you can find comparison mesaurements from OLLO incl. AKGs, BeyerDynamic, .... incl. influence with USC files:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...rements_calibration_included.pdf?v=1701436897
E.g. BD DT770 are HIFI and USC influence is not dramatic.
I would say 100% flat is no headphone, the question is just, how much calibration is necessary and is it still possible/useful and all measurments are only as good as the measurement equipment. Well, all measurements are different like every ear and taste ...

Here is the latest version from Spring, 2024: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0250/2508/5489/files/2024_Spring_Edition_S5X.pdf

 

[Manny Fufish]

The Ollo S4X transferring very well to FOH.
You will hear amazing details. Since I have them I start listening to my favorite albums in a new way.
They gave me a new hearing experience.

I'm very interested in these. I found the new version, the S5X 1.1 are designed to support mixing and mastering of Dolby Atmos, which I’m very interested in. Thoughts on this newer model?

 

[TheRedDevil]

Here is the latest version from Spring, 2024: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0250/2508/5489/files/2024_Spring_Edition_S5X.pdf

I'm wondering that a partly already perfectly linear non-calibrated signal (starting in low frequency) from Ollos
is calibrated (in red) and not linear on 85dB line anymore ... is USC working wrong?

 

[jeffgoobs]

I'm wondering that a partly already perfectly linear non-calibrated signal (starting in low frequency) from Ollos
is calibrated (in red) and not linear on 85dB line anymore ... is USC working wrong? View attachment 142203

This can get confusing. The reason is because the frequency response of the OLLOs isn't actually flat. What they are drawing as "flat" is the Harman 2019 over-the-ear EQ curve standardization, which isn't actually flat. The Harman curve standards actually look like this when mapped out for real:

The reason they draw it as flat in this context is because the Harman curve is supposed to represent what studio monitors in a perfectly treated room and a flat frequency response sound like in real life (as opposed to headphones, which removes the 3D air element of the sound by putting the drivers right next to or inside your ears.) So if you want your headphones to have a similarly "flat" frequency response to ideal studio monitors, then you'd EQ the FR of the cans to match the Harman curve (or some variation thereof.) So when there is a slight bump in the otherwise flat line, all that is showing is how much the natural FR of the OLLOs is altered in order to match the Harman curve (since every pair of headphones is slightly different.)

ETA: I think they are averaging the FR of the S5Xs, which is why as more get made, they update the chart.

ETA2: After reading the fine print, apparently, they have their own target curve (OLLO 2022), which is likely some variation of the Harman curve.

 

[woodbutcher65]

I'm a Sennheiser disciple. HD600s at the very minimum. They are very detailed and accurate.

 

[TheRedDevil]

Thank you very much, that will be the reason. I still have doubts about this Harman curve. It is based on surveys from users who are of course used to hi-fi and are not looking for the perfect guitar sound with an AXEFX. The Ollo is really flatter than others but unfortunately not always better with USC (for us). Mh, the low at 6.5Khz ... but comparision with V30 or GB speaker also shows the low around 5khz. I think it can be ignored and the S5X 1.1 USC is a good choice.

 

[jeffgoobs]

Thank you very much, that will be the reason. I still have doubts about this Harman curve. It is based on surveys from users who are of course used to hi-fi and are not looking for the perfect guitar sound with an AXEFX. The Ollo is really flatter than others but unfortunately not always better with USC (for us). Mh, the low at 6.5Khz ... but comparision with V30 or GB speaker also shows the low around 5khz. I think it can be ignored and the S5X 1.1 USC is a good choice.View attachment 142219

My issue with it is similar to yours in that it's not actually genuinely standardized. There are like 10 accepted EQ curves, depending on the type of headphone, and depending on one's personal preference regarding what recorded music "should" sound like in a perfect world. I do think there is something to that general curve, because if you actually flatten the EQ curve of headphones (where the FR is truly flat, not "their" version of flat), the resulting sound is awful. A/B comparing different headphones of mine with and without the EQ (deepening on the cans) usually result in a significantly more true and pleasing timbre with it than without.

 

[LiquidGuitar]

Can someone post the frequency response curve for the Sennheiser 600HD? Much thanks!

 

[TheRedDevil]

From Ollo Audio:
"Overall the S4X are darker sounding. More would describe it as "full bodied" if we use the guitars language for a second. The S5X are brighter overall, with a tad less bass response. But the S5X have a wider soundstage with different pads, chassis, speakers placement etc,..
Both are good for either stereo or immersive, though 5X were tuned and designed to support translation of downmixed atmos better than the S4X that were made for stereo. To hear compressors work easily, for example. ..."

Possibly it helps you. See also: