Is the Axe-Fx II XL+ 100% of the way there tonally?

the thing I love about a modeled guitar tone (the Axefx in the case) as opposed to a tube amp is the ability to get everything at the level I like and keep the tone. I always fought with Tube amps gain staging, volume changes etc. To me its not a question of does it sound 100% (IMHO I think it sounds better) its more how much more usable in the moment control I have over the tone while playing live.

Sonic consistency is a big advantage.
 
I think it doesn't make sense to say it's 100% there while Cliff is still putting out updates that improve on the realism. Even between Q5 and 5.01 it became more 'real'. . . So if course the answer has to be no.
Actually this argument has lot of logical problems due to the nature of the question and a LOT of underlying assumptions being made on your end. IMHO.
 
I think it's all splitting hairs at this point. Does it sound exactly like X amp? who knows, who cares too many variables, 5 rectos probably all sound different. Can you use it as a tool to get killer tones? YES. People should be chasing their tones, not worrying that it sounds 100% like some amp, when even the same amps have issues, due to wear and tear, tubes, humidity, speakers, etc.. so many variables.

I'm sure, and as I've witnessed over the years, Cliff has his moments where he figures out something. So by that i'm assuming that there are things he's guessed at (educated guesses) and or made some approximation on, and then after some work finally figured "it" out, thus making it more accurate. Point of diminishing returns? not sure.
 
This is just my opinion on it, some may disagree but opinions are like assholes everybody has one. Plus I spent enough money on the damn thing and own "real" tube amps\cabs and my hearing is pretty good so it's not like I'm talking out of my ass, but take this with a grain of salt if your looking to snag an Axe or want to know the gritty pro's con's of this thing, which ultimately there are very few con's.

It sounds great - first and foremost. Better than any VST or Amp sim out of the box. I've gotten similar sounds on my Computer, if not better - but it requires CPU Usage and it's never real-time, always during the mixing stage. The Axe is real-time, these tones are ZERO LATENCY that you just can't get with these other VST Plugins\Products, especially if your a Reverb\Delay\EQ Slut like me.

As far as criticism, I do notice a lack of clarity and definition which is probably because Cab emulation is not 100% there yet, IMO. There's just a certain level of resolution\clarity in the higher frequencies you just don't hear and are actually rather harsh when compared to sitting in front of a real tube amp and nice cab. I've been through hundreds if not thousands of Cab IR's and although some are nicer than others they really aren't the real thing. They all end up sounding like a thin sheet is covering the speakers. Perhaps a lot of these older folk can't hear it due to all the concerts and what-not, but I've had a number of people listen to it and the first thing they notice is that it doesn't sound as "clear" as a real amp and cab, and anybody who wants to argue that fact should get their hearing checked. I've compared this thing on Yamaha HS80m's, EV's, Bose Headphones and Mackies so far and I always hear a lack in clarity and even a harshness that I don't get if I just turn my damn amp on and play it through my cab. The real thing is smoother, harmonics are clearer, there's a higher resolution\clarity that I don't hear in ANY modeler. That is my true one and only gripe about emulation. So, does it kill the experience? --- Fuck no. Please read on.

Taking what I've said into consideration, when you MIC a real tube amp you lose a lot of that Clarity anyway. The EQ Curve of the MIC you are using cuts a lot of the clarity out and you end up going into a digital board 9/10 regardless. When mixing you cut even more of it out to make room for Vocals\Drums and other instruments which leads me to what I ultimately feel the Axe is best suited for if your not running it into a Tube Power amp and real Cabs or FRFR Speakers: Recording.

The Axe almost perfectly emulates the end result of MIC'ing an Amp Cab and hearing it through Studio Monitors. If you MIC a Real Amp and run them A/B and you are sitting in a Studio Booth you will probably not notice a difference. You will notice even less of a difference in a mix. I would argue that 99.99% of the human population would have no fucking clue it's not a "real tube amp". Where it really shines is the fact you can have 2 Amps, two Cabs, and all of the effects consolidated into 1 Unit emulating the entire effects & recording chain which in an analog environment with traditional hardware might cost tens of thousands of dollars. It's not that it only sounds good, but that it also emulates the entire effects chain perfectly every time and saves HOURS of work with ZERO Latency. It's fucking amazing.

So, I'd say it's 95% there in terms of sonic comparison, and that's an opinion anyway, most people can't hear a difference. I'm a whiny bitch and I absolutely hear some clarity\high frequency issues and slight harshness that all sims have that most people cut out of the mix and cover up with other instruments. I only notice because I play without any backing tracks most the time and you'll start to pick up these issues after many hours of use. I hope digital emulation will overcome this some day but for the most part it sounds amazing. If you are playing along with CD's or jamming in a Band it sounds amazinger. My profile picture was taken when I was using the 4 cable method and that lasted a few days, I'm now back to using the Axe all by itself because it sounds better than trying to MIC the Cab which can be rather difficult if you don't have a nice Studio and treated rooms.

Anyway, hope that helps.

-Justin
 
This is just my opinion on it, some may disagree but opinions are like assholes everybody has one. Plus I spent enough money on the damn thing and own "real" tube amps\cabs and my hearing is pretty good so it's not like I'm talking out of my ass, but take this with a grain of salt if your looking to snag an Axe or want to know the gritty pro's con's of this thing, which ultimately there are very few con's.

It sounds great - first and foremost. Better than any VST or Amp sim out of the box. I've gotten similar sounds on my Computer, if not better - but it requires CPU Usage and it's never real-time, always during the mixing stage. The Axe is real-time, these tones are ZERO LATENCY that you just can't get with these other VST Plugins\Products, especially if your a Reverb\Delay\EQ Slut like me.

As far as criticism, I do notice a lack of clarity and definition which is probably because Cab emulation is not 100% there yet, IMO. There's just a certain level of resolution\clarity in the higher frequencies you just don't hear and are actually rather harsh when compared to sitting in front of a real tube amp and nice cab. I've been through hundreds if not thousands of Cab IR's and although some are nicer than others they really aren't the real thing. They all end up sounding like a thin sheet is covering the speakers. Perhaps a lot of these older folk can't hear it due to all the concerts and what-not, but I've had a number of people listen to it and the first thing they notice is that it doesn't sound as "clear" as a real amp and cab, and anybody who wants to argue that fact should get their hearing checked. I've compared this thing on Yamaha HS80m's, EV's, Bose Headphones and Mackies so far and I always hear a lack in clarity and even a harshness that I don't get if I just turn my damn amp on and play it through my cab. The real thing is smoother, harmonics are clearer, there's a higher resolution\clarity that I don't hear in ANY modeler. That is my true one and only gripe about emulation. So, does it kill the experience? --- Fuck no. Please read on.

Taking what I've said into consideration, when you MIC a real tube amp you lose a lot of that Clarity anyway. The EQ Curve of the MIC you are using cuts a lot of the clarity out and you end up going into a digital board 9/10 regardless. When mixing you cut even more of it out to make room for Vocals\Drums and other instruments which leads me to what I ultimately feel the Axe is best suited for if your not running it into a Tube Power amp and real Cabs or FRFR Speakers: Recording.

The Axe almost perfectly emulates the end result of MIC'ing an Amp Cab and hearing it through Studio Monitors. If you MIC a Real Amp and run them A/B and you are sitting in a Studio Booth you will probably not notice a difference. You will notice even less of a difference in a mix. I would argue that 99.99% of the human population would have no fucking clue it's not a "real tube amp". Where it really shines is the fact you can have 2 Amps, two Cabs, and all of the effects consolidated into 1 Unit emulating the entire effects & recording chain which in an analog environment with traditional hardware might cost tens of thousands of dollars. It's not that it only sounds good, but that it also emulates the entire effects chain perfectly every time and saves HOURS of work with ZERO Latency. It's fucking amazing.

So, I'd say it's 95% there in terms of sonic comparison, and that's an opinion anyway, most people can't hear a difference. I'm a whiny bitch and I absolutely hear some clarity\high frequency issues and slight harshness that all sims have that most people cut out of the mix and cover up with other instruments. I only notice because I play without any backing tracks most the time and you'll start to pick up these issues after many hours of use. I hope digital emulation will overcome this some day but for the most part it sounds amazing. If you are playing along with CD's or jamming in a Band it sounds amazinger. My profile picture was taken when I was using the 4 cable method and that lasted a few days, I'm now back to using the Axe all by itself because it sounds better than trying to MIC the Cab which can be rather difficult if you don't have a nice Studio and treated rooms.

Anyway, hope that helps.

-Justin
I also think the cab sim is the weak point of amp modeling, there are certain aspects that an IR can't emulate. Those are non-linear effects such as compression, distortion and probably also a changing frequency response at the different levels the speaker is pushed.
A friend recently let me try Nebula Pro plugin with some Ownhammer IRs and that IMO is a big step forward in cab simulation.
It basically uses something like 27 IRs of the same cabinet and mic position captured at different levels and the algorhythm dinamically chooses which one to use depending on the level of the signal you're feeding it.
The result is much more alive than static IRs (even if still not 100% real) but I assume that this type of modeling would be very DSP hungry for a live application and currently impossible to implement in a modeler.
Anyway I've found that using a certain amount of speaker drive and motor drive in the axe can come closer to how Nebula works but still not quite there
 
Don't be fooled guys!
axe2-jpg.25515
 
For me the main criteria is not “being there 100%” in the sense stated here, but more down the line of having the tool(s) at hand to shape the character of my playing (response, tone, feel and interaction) to that what’s in my head. Since I started playing guitar some 48 years ago and after countless amps, guitars, cabs, pedals and what-not of endless tone-chasing, this is the closest I’ve come to “being there 100%”.

IMHO it’s all a question of personal preference and having the ability/ambition to get “there”. I still have a few tube-amps siting around here, but it’s more a sentimental thing than anything else, also keeps the dust from getting on the floor.
 
The Axe is there. Does it sound identical to your one true favorite amp? Well, in the same way that another instance of your one true favorite amp won't sound exactly like your baby, the Axe-Fx probably isn't going to sound identical to your personal amp out of the box.

However, I've A/B'd my Axe + rack poweramp with my real amps and it's always close enough that without fail over the course of the A/Bing I have to check which one I'm playing though several times because the difference in tone or feel just flat-out isn't big enough to make it apparent, ESPECIALLY when you dial in the Axe with the real thing right there for reference.
 
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