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Is arrived the time for Axe-Fx III to profile an amp?

GreatGreen

Power User
I had a Kemper for 2 years. Axe III is better in EVERY CONCEIVABLE WAY. Seriously, profiling is NOT better technology. In fact, there are too many disadvantages of profiling to list, such as having to wade through hundreds, if not thousands of profiles just to find a few you like. And, you have to find a profile you like at each gain level you would use, for each amp you use.

I don't own a Kemper, but when I imagine the prospect of finding an amp tone the same way I currently have to find an IR I like... yikes. No thanks.

While I generally love dialing in amp models and effects, IR browsing is easily the least-fun part of the entire process of building a virtual rig. You just blindly click one IR after the next and hope it sounds good, on and on forever. Sure there's names and descriptors and whatever but they are of limited help.

Anybody who finds a way to allow users to dial in an IR with speaker parameters, number of speakers per cab, cab size, etc. the same way they dial in amps and other effects is going to make some serious money. I have no idea how you'd even start that process but hopefully somebody figures it out. Imagine being able to start with a generic 4-speaker guitar cab and being able to "dial in" a Vintage 30 loaded Mesa oversize or a Greenback loaded Friedman using parameters for magnet size, cap size, cone material, cab volume, whatever.
 
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Harm

Inspired
The moment you put anything else than the stock speaker after your amp, the whole modeling goes put the door imho. All that matters is quality sound and tweakability. The axe has that covered beyond belief. After reading the discussion and combine that with my own experience it would be possible to have the axe “listen” to a recording and then advising you an amp and speaker combo. A kind of profiling but taking a different angle. Imho the amp modelling ( or “imitating”.) has gotten to a level where improvement will be a matter of little tweaks. The next step would be in adding options to the axe in a broader sense. Making it the swiss army knife for the modern and demanding guitarist/ musician.

Harm
 

yeky83

Power User
Anybody who finds a way to allow users to dial in an IR with speaker parameters, number of speakers per cab, cab size, etc. the same way they dial in amps and other effects is going to make some serious money. I have no idea how you'd even start that process but hopefully somebody figures it out. Imagine being able to start with a generic 4-speaker guitar cab and being able to "dial in" a Vintage 30 loaded Mesa oversize or a Greenback loaded Friedman using parameters for magnet size, cap size, cone material, cab volume, whatever.
Is @JiveTurkey here? "Some serious money."
 

lyricbread

Experienced
Profiling would only be of use to me if I were looking to profile my own rigs. In that case, this is where Cliff's patent idea would be superior. I have no interest in downloading or purchasing profiles of someone else's rig, which seems to be what most profiler owners are doing.
 

boyce89976

Inspired
I don't own a Kemper, but when I imagine the prospect of finding an amp tone the same way I currently have to find an IR I like... yikes. No thanks.

While I generally love dialing in amp models and effects, IR browsing is easily the least-fun part of the entire process of building a virtual rig. You just blindly click one IR after the next and hope it sounds good, on and on forever. Sure there's names and descriptors and whatever but they are of limited help.

Anybody who finds a way to allow users to dial in an IR with speaker parameters, number of speakers per cab, cab size, etc. the same way they dial in amps and other effects is going to make some serious money. I have no idea how you'd even start that process but hopefully somebody figures it out. Imagine being able to start with a generic 4-speaker guitar cab and being able to "dial in" a Vintage 30 loaded Mesa oversize or a Greenback loaded Friedman using parameters for magnet size, cap size, cone material, cab volume, whatever.
That is such a great analogy! That's exactly what it's like. In fact, the Kemper community sometimes refers to "amp picking" as "auditioning amps". Makes me tired just thinking about it. ;)
 

Harm

Inspired
Hmm weird that so many ppl are so negative about the profiling. So many axe fx users do the same imho. Myself included. I use the stock eric Johnson preset, the petrucci preset that cooper carter made, I have a few presets that attempt to nail EvH’s sound, a Metallica patch, a Steve Vai patch, the pink floyd pack Fremen made. I see nothing wrong in this. In fact, the reason I bought the axe is that it would enable me to get those sounds. And not only the amps, but also the effects. And yes I make my own sounds, but mostly that is cherry picking effects and amp and then adjusting to taste. Look at the presets forum. It is full of ppl trying to nail a certain sound. Getting tired when looking at that too? Come on, relax. Praising the product you own doesn’t mean you have to criticise an other product or its users.

Harm
 

Smittefar

Fractal Fanatic
For me, the problem is not the profiling. I think that is fantastic, if you have a bunch of amps you can profile yourself. However, just as I hate browsing through presets, I would hate to browse through profiles. It is simply a completely uninspiring workflow for me.

I went through the factory presets once, then deleted them. Every now and again someone uploads a preset with an interesting video, and then I might try the preset. Also, I use Simeon's presets, because they are way beyond anything I could create myself.

I can create a preset from scratch faster than I could find what I want in AxeChange.

Fractal's approach with super solid modeling and FX, where you can (maybe in the future) profile your own versions of the modeled amp is the perfect match on my view (although I do not own any real amps anymore, so I will not be using it)
 

Brian Angiel

Inspired
noo the Axe 3 is not better than the Kemper,both units are awesome,right now i prefer playing with my Kemper Stage,and no no im not a fan boy of either unit,im just going to leave this here....

View attachment 76894
The problem is you’re arguing against an opinion with your own opinion (and a celebrity endorsement, of which there are many for the Axe as well). Use what works for you, and don’t worry about what another person thinks is good, better, or best.
 
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NightWalker

Power User
The problem is you’re arguing against an opinion with your own opinion (and a celebrity endorsement, of which there are many for the Axe as well). Use what works for you, and don’t worry about what another person thinks is good, better, or best.
what im arguing is that the axe 3 is not better than the Kemper,and im not worry,im just saying.
 

dpeterson

Axe-Master
noo the Axe 3 is not better than the Kemper,both units are awesome,right now i prefer playing with my Kemper Stage,and no no im not a fan boy of either unit,im just going to leave this here....

View attachment 76894

It's just an old way of thinking that has to die, and will die with the old timers. People of my generation got so mind fucked by shitty solid state amps that nobody would deal with them. Tubes or die. I wish people would just try to get sounds they like and not worry so much about what others use, and stop chasing 40+ year old tones. "well it doesn't exactly sound like this one amp I used to have when i was 12". uggh.
 

Brian Angiel

Inspired
what im arguing is that the axe 3 is not better than the Kemper,and im not worry,im just saying.
Right but that’s your opinion. His is that the Axe is definitely better. Who’s right? Both of you in your own eyes and neither of you in the other’s eyes. It’s a bit of a pointless argument.
 

boyce89976

Inspired
Hmm weird that so many ppl are so negative about the profiling. So many axe fx users do the same imho. Myself included. I use the stock eric Johnson preset, the petrucci preset that cooper carter made, I have a few presets that attempt to nail EvH’s sound, a Metallica patch, a Steve Vai patch, the pink floyd pack Fremen made. I see nothing wrong in this. In fact, the reason I bought the axe is that it would enable me to get those sounds. And not only the amps, but also the effects. And yes I make my own sounds, but mostly that is cherry picking effects and amp and then adjusting to taste. Look at the presets forum. It is full of ppl trying to nail a certain sound. Getting tired when looking at that too? Come on, relax. Praising the product you own doesn’t mean you have to criticise an other product or its users.

Harm
When I sold my Kemper earlier this year I had more than 6,000 profiles. Scrolling through a couple hundred presets on the Axe III, to find 3 or 4 you might use, is very different from scrolling through a few hundred amp profiles to find a few that might work for you. Why? Profiles are snapshots of specific amp settings... if you tweak the profile too far from it's stock settings it can start to sound unnatural. For example, an edge of break up profile, won't know what the amp really sounds like with the gain pushed into crunch or distortion territory. So if you want a Matchless at edge of breakup, crunch and wide open, you have to find profiles you like at each of those gain settings. And therein lies the problem, as each profile is an opportunity for the person profiling the amp to change amp EQ, or mic preamp settings, or EQ post profile capture, etc... so you're left with profiles that have that person's "idea" of what sounds good. As a result, it's surprisingly difficult to find the profiles of the same amp at different gain settings that have a continuity of tone.

With the Axe, when you find a preset you like, you can tweak the amp gain as much as you want to and it still sounds like the same amp.

I found I endlessly searched for, and tweaked, profiles on my Kemper. I probably had 400-500 profiles of just a Matchless DC30 because none of them ever quite lived up to my real HC30 (even the profiles OF MY HC30 which were done by one of the top profilers in the world)!

I found it so much easier to dial in the Axe III. I think I had my DC30 preset tweaked in less than 10 minutes. I've tweaked a little each time FW is updated, but it always ends up right back where I started with it. It literally hasn't changed in 11 months. That was never the case for me with the Kemper.

There are other things about the Kemper I didn't like as well... no stereo amps, no stereo fx before the amps, there's this compression and weird high-mid frequency spike in every profile, the onboard fx suck, and then the fact that one of the Kemper guys leaked that there are only one or two actual profiles in the Kemper, and each and every profile is based on one of those two.

YMMV, and if you like Kemper, and wading through hundreds of profiles for each gain setting you use, more power to you. I prefer it simple. Heck if Cliff ever came out with a box with just the amps and cabs, I'd be first in line to purchase one, or two!
 

Harm

Inspired
When I sold my Kemper earlier this year I had more than 6,000 profiles. Scrolling through a couple hundred presets on the Axe III, to find 3 or 4 you might use, is very different from scrolling through a few hundred amp profiles to find a few that might work for you. Why? Profiles are snapshots of specific amp settings... if you tweak the profile too far from it's stock settings it can start to sound unnatural. For example, an edge of break up profile, won't know what the amp really sounds like with the gain pushed into crunch or distortion territory. So if you want a Matchless at edge of breakup, crunch and wide open, you have to find profiles you like at each of those gain settings. And therein lies the problem, as each profile is an opportunity for the person profiling the amp to change amp EQ, or mic preamp settings, or EQ post profile capture, etc... so you're left with profiles that have that person's "idea" of what sounds good. As a result, it's surprisingly difficult to find the profiles of the same amp at different gain settings that have a continuity of tone.

With the Axe, when you find a preset you like, you can tweak the amp gain as much as you want to and it still sounds like the same amp.

I found I endlessly searched for, and tweaked, profiles on my Kemper. I probably had 400-500 profiles of just a Matchless DC30 because none of them ever quite lived up to my real HC30 (even the profiles OF MY HC30 which were done by one of the top profilers in the world)!

I found it so much easier to dial in the Axe III. I think I had my DC30 preset tweaked in less than 10 minutes. I've tweaked a little each time FW is updated, but it always ends up right back where I started with it. It literally hasn't changed in 11 months. That was never the case for me with the Kemper.

There are other things about the Kemper I didn't like as well... no stereo amps, no stereo fx before the amps, there's this compression and weird high-mid frequency spike in every profile, the onboard fx suck, and then the fact that one of the Kemper guys leaked that there are only one or two actual profiles in the Kemper, and each and every profile is based on one of those two.

YMMV, and if you like Kemper, and wading through hundreds of profiles for each gain setting you use, more power to you. I prefer it simple. Heck if Cliff ever came out with a box with just the amps and cabs, I'd be first in line to purchase one, or two!

Thank you for your extensive reply, but you missed my point. You go through all this trouble to say again how much better the axe is. Well, I own three fractal products and am very happy. i do not own a Kemper and think I never will.
My point was the looking down at the concept of profiling or better: looking for pet sounds. Doesn’t matter which technology/brand you use.
Anyway. Best wishes for the new year!

Harm
 

App12

Inspired
Thank you for your extensive reply, but you missed my point. You go through all this trouble to say again how much better the axe is. Well, I own three fractal products and am very happy. i do not own a Kemper and think I never will.
My point was the looking down at the concept of profiling or better: looking for pet sounds. Doesn’t matter which technology/brand you use.
Anyway. Best wishes for the new year!

Harm
If you haven’t had a Kemper then maybe it is best not to comment about the workflow. @boyce89976 is absolutely correct. If you want a Fender sound in the Axe, you pull it up and dial it in like you have the real amp in front of you. Too little overdrive? Turn it up right there. On the Kemper if there is too little overdrive you have to find a whole new profile. It would be like carrying in a whole new amp to try it out assuming that every profile is actually done well. As someone who has both it is a big workflow difference. If you have your own amps that you like and you profile them, it makes more sense (and I have made a few profiles of some Axe amp/cabs I like). Add in the POS they call an editor, their whole profiles v performance approach and rude, arrogant staff and it is just no comparison.
 

boyce89976

Inspired
Thank you for your extensive reply, but you missed my point. You go through all this trouble to say again how much better the axe is. Well, I own three fractal products and am very happy. i do not own a Kemper and think I never will.
My point was the looking down at the concept of profiling or better: looking for pet sounds. Doesn’t matter which technology/brand you use.
Anyway. Best wishes for the new year!

Harm
I actually didn’t miss your point. In fact, my entire post addresses the differences in how you look for sounds on Kemper and how time consuming it can be, vs something like the Axe.

If you’ve never had a Kemper you have no idea how tedious it is.
 
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