"interaction" (not feedback) of guitar and cab

K

keh

Member
Unfortunately I play at high volumes very seldom, if I play loud, then mostly with headphones (has someone already tried the BeoPlay H6? They're great closed headphones at a reasonable price for the quality!) . So I miss the "interaction" of guitar and cab, but I'm not talking about a feedback that could be done with a preset and a expression pedal.
I've already tried some things, f.e. a loop that feeds a delayed signal from behind the cab back into the preamp again, but it was not the same still.
Do you have any ideas or even presets?
Or - @ Cliff - is this perhaps an idea for Quantum 1.03? A "interaction" switch in global block like power-amp on/off, perhaps even with settings for the guitar type (solid, hollow,...) and pickup-type?
 
Nice idea but I think it would be time consuming, to much work and there are other priorities that FAS would be addressing right now.
 
If you can describe the interaction in words perhaps it can be modeled. If you can't, it probably can't.

Can you describe it?

It's probably not the cab you're missing, but the room interaction.
 
OK, I'll try to describe it better: When you play at loud volumes the strings and the guitar itself picks up the sound pressure and this is what I'm looking for. It's some kind of feedback - but not so much that the tone starts to sound forever like in the feedback presets with foot controller. Or should I just use such presets but with lower maximum values?
 
That's acoustic coupling between the speaker/sound and your guitar. You need at least some volume to make that happen. Headphones only will sound flat and feel sterile because there's no coupling or "interaction" as you call it.
 
I got interesting results trying to emulate the schaffer replica effect. I've put two compressor blocks and an eq in a sequence, cmp1-eq-cmp2. The first cmp is set in dynamic mode rising the dynamics, then the eq is steeling some lows and after that the compressor is lowering the dynamic range again. That way I get kind of a compression but not as usual. It's not exactly the effect a loud amp does, but similar. I guess I'd need to try different eq settings to get closer...it might be in there.
 
You could try one of those sustain or feedback modules for your guitar.

But in all honesty: how would you even simulate that without actually generating a sound via a synth? You can't just magically make your strings vibrate longer without actual acoustic feedback.
 
Maybe it's not necessary to have the strings vibrate longer. That matters when you let tones ring out, but that's not that often the case. Most of the time we play some rhythm parts. The wanted effect is just like a compressor then, the problem is that when you want to emulate that with a compressor block you need to know some genius settings.
 
What you are describing seems like it would be a modeling process on it's own. ( magnetic pickups reproducing a regeneration back into the original signal as the pickup would hear it) It's definitely a missing ingredient when using headphones only or in ears with no monitors. ( probably why I hate in ears, the interaction is lost) a product that reproduces the vibrations, such as the ButtKicker products ( vibrating pads to stand on ,drum thrones,etc) help by giving you a lot of the feel back, but still there's interaction missing. A modeling process to recreate that would be amazing!
 
At least I recommend to everyone to try that schaffer replica trick like described above.
To me it's ground breaking for my clean sounds.
 
I think the only true way to get a result you want would be to take an output from the Axe-FX and amp it into a transducer physically mounted in the body of your guitar. A good idea. Maybe I need to have this conversation with my luthier friends.
 
"1. plug into a power amp and cab
2. Turn it up a bit
Problem solved" - but new problem comes up:
My four children (daughter with six and 1/2 and triplets with nearly 5 now - not kidding...) will cry so loud that I can't hear the cab anymore...

Please stay constructive, this is a topic that a lot of other home-studio-owners might have...
 
keh said:
"1. plug into a power amp and cab
2. Turn it up a bit
Problem solved" - but new problem comes up:
My four children (daughter with six and 1/2 and triplets with nearly 5 now - not kidding...) will cry so loud that I can't hear the cab anymore...

Please stay constructive, this is a topic that a lot of other home-studio-owners might have...
Click to expand...
It was constructive you added an uncommunicated constraint on the problem after the fact.

Search for "amp in the room" this is covered here about once every couple of weeks. :-/
 
I'm not talking about "amp in the room", this would just be a matter of reverb (in cab-block or seperate and/or the used IR). My intention is:
Taking the signal from behind the cab and feeding it back into the input to achieve the coupling of cab and guitar (not feedback). I couldn't find a good setting for that, so I've opened this thread...
 
There used to be a parameter "thunk", that added kind of smeared mids to the sound. It was simulating the effect of playing loud. I tested it by playing and recording the same thing silently vs. 115db, one foot away from the speaker, and it was pretty accurate, but the effect really is very subtle in real life. Feedback is a lot bigger effect, and it doesn't have to be 80's howling, just the added sustain makes the difference. So the thing you're describing is actually a slight mid boost.
 
keh said:
"1. plug into a power amp and cab
2. Turn it up a bit
Problem solved" - but new problem comes up:
My four children (daughter with six and 1/2 and triplets with nearly 5 now - not kidding...) will cry so loud that I can't hear the cab anymore...

Please stay constructive, this is a topic that a lot of other home-studio-owners might have...
Click to expand...
Hah, in that case I'd say you have much bigger problems than missing acoustic feedback. ;)

Just kidding. I'm kinda envious of your blessing. :)


At this point (and as many people already pointed that out already), I'd say it's pretty much impossible to achieve what you want (without a ridicolous amount of effort on your end, like for example physical means via mechanical transducers).
The question is more: is it really that important to you? My guess is probably not.

I've seen so many bands these days with IEM on stage... they don't seem to miss that element either.
 
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A Port City 1x12 OS runs a little over 500 dollars, and you can run the axe-fx through it with an EHX magnum 44. The magnum 44 sounds absolutely fine, only costs 150, and is really great for practicing at low volumes. The ported cab helps give a fuller sound out of the smaller enclosure as well, and will sound extremely pleasing to you.

If you can swing the money you will absolutely not regret it for a moment, and you can surely get by playing it as quiet as you'd like when you have to be I'd imagine. When what you want is the amp in the room feel I don't think you will ever find anything other than a comparable solution such as this to remedy it.
 
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