Input 'secret sauce' and spdif question...

R

randombastage

Experienced
If I have my guitar plugged into a different device and have a spdif in/out connection to the AxeFx II xl+ am I missing out on advantages provided by the instrument input circuitry of the AxeFx?
 
Yes, although "missing out" kind of implies the other device would give audibly worse results, which might not be true. Either way, the Axe-FX INSTR input design no longer has any effect on the sound if you're not using it.
 
I think the OP is asking does plugging directly into Input 1 front affect the playability of the preset vs. other inputs.

E.g. can you obtain better pick dynamics or gtr vol roll off with Input 1 front vs. other inputs.
 
I'm trying to set up a collection of modelers that will all be ready to go at the stomp of a switch with the least amount of 'loss-of-tone' and my thinking, perhaps wrong, is that avoiding as many hardware A/B/Y 'splitters' as possible is best.
So I'm looking to use the in's and out's of the modelers themselves to handle as much of the routing inside the 'digital realm' when possible.

The Helix has spdif in/out, as does the AxeFx, I can put the AmpliFIRE in a loop of the Helix and use spdif to mate the AxeFx with Helix/AmpliFIRE and then use the footswitches of Helix to give me instant access to any of them via Presets on Helix.

I look to the AxeFxII to be the most important one so maybe I should plug the guitar into it and then branch out from there to avoid compromising its sound quality.
However, if sending the AxeFx the dry instrument signal via spdif isn't a problem, then plugging the guitar into Helix might give me more options downstream...
For example, I also want to have a direct feed into SGear and MainStage3 which I think is easy to accomplish via USB regardless of which device is the interface but Helix provides more options via USB if I'm reading things correctly.

Thanks!
 
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If you are using passive pickups, the variable input impedance circuit on the front input of the Axe can have a subtle impact on the tone and feel. Non issue with buffered active pickups.
 
randombastage said:
I'm trying to set up a collection of modelers that will all be ready to go at the stomp of a switch with the least amount of 'loss-of-tone' and my thinking, perhaps wrong, is that avoiding as many hardware A/B/Y 'splitters' as possible is best.
So I'm looking to use the in's and out's of the modelers themselves to handle as much of the routing inside the 'digital realm' when possible.
Click to expand...

Understood.

I look to the AxeFxII to be the most important one so maybe I should plug the guitar into it and then branch out from there to avoid compromising its sound quality.
Click to expand...

That's one way to do it.


I guess that, in your situation, I'd wonder about the relative quality of the analog input circuitry of each device.

I'd be willing to bet that the analog front-end of the Helix is technically (and perhaps audibly) inferior to that of the AFX. Therefore, it'd make sense to use the AFX as your "master" device.

But there are gotchas. (There always are...) The AFX input can change impedance. To guarantee that you'll have a consistent input for the guitar signal, you'd probably want to switch to a well-known patch on the AFX when you're using AFX as the input for some other modeller. That implies either tap dancing or some MIDI programming...

Which raises the question: How do you intend to actually switch from modeler to modeler?

Here's another thing to ponder: How much do the analog chains of the non-AFX modeler contribute to *their* sound? IOW, is a digital input in all senses equivalent to the analog input? (Related question: does it matter? ;))

I think if I was to attempt what you're planning to do, I'd go with an unbuffered 1:N analog switch between guitar and modelers. That way the guitar sees the "native" analog input of each modeler; you don't have to make signal routing part of the modelers' jobs. I'd run the modeler outputs into a line mixer and use a "mute" patch to disable each unused modeler.

There's a possibility that sharing the guitar input across modelers will introduce ground loops. I use the Ebtech Hum-X to solve that particular problem.
 
TieDyedDevil said:
...
Which raises the question: How do you intend to actually switch from modeler to modeler?..
Click to expand...

The Helix allows to assign inputs and outputs, xlr pair, 1/4" pair, spdif, USB 8 in/8 out, etc. on a per preset basis, or even on a per path, up to four, within the Helix version of 'the Grid'.
So my theory is to use it to call up presets that dictate which device (or devices) will be sent the guitar instrument input signal. I can have 8 in 8 out via USB as well as 1/4" Output pair, XLR Output pair and four 1/4" send and return line/instrument in/out. In Hardware alone you can have up to 4 stereo paths. Lots of possibilities.

It does have high quality converters and a similar to the Fractal auto-variable or assignable input impedance circuitry for the instrument input. I have no idea which is superior or if there is enough difference for my use/ears to notice.

With all that routing and control I really want to use Helix as the center of the rig. Although I can always fall back to plan B... having everything but the AxeFx routed through the Helix, as that is the way things are now working fine, and introduce the AxeFx as a second USB Audio device to my laptop, each with it's own stereo output to the CLR's, and simply use midi from Helix to AxeFX for the preset changes.

Ground loop hum is an issue that I hadn't thought of so that may cause me to rethink it if it happens.

I figure I'll start out just playing guitar straight into the AxeFx>a pair of CLR's to get used to the AxeFx in it's full glory and then start connecting things and see what gives.
 
randombastage said:
I'm trying to set up a collection of modelers that will all be ready to go at the stomp of a switch with the least amount of 'loss-of-tone' and my thinking, perhaps wrong, is that avoiding as many hardware A/B/Y 'splitters' as possible is best.
So I'm looking to use the in's and out's of the modelers themselves to handle as much of the routing inside the 'digital realm' when possible.

The Helix has spdif in/out, as does the AxeFx, I can put the AmpliFIRE in a loop of the Helix and use spdif to mate the AxeFx with Helix/AmpliFIRE and then use the footswitches of Helix to give me instant access to any of them via Presets on Helix.

I look to the AxeFxII to be the most important one so maybe I should plug the guitar into it and then branch out from there to avoid compromising its sound quality.
However, if sending the AxeFx the dry instrument signal via spdif isn't a problem, then plugging the guitar into Helix might give me more options downstream...
For example, I also want to have a direct feed into SGear and MainStage3 which I think is easy to accomplish via USB regardless of which device is the interface but Helix provides more options via USB if I'm reading things correctly.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Why the h*ll would you want a rig so complicated with so much cr*p? Those are all nice units, any of which is probably sufficient for whatever the heck you are doing. You will be dialing stuff forever.

The entire point of multiprocessors is replacing multi-units rigs to reduce device count. IMHO. I'm sort of reminded of the TGP youtube satire video "Tag Knows Tone" where the sane character says "You could do that gig with a Peavey Bandit" in response to the character mortgaging his house for a Dumble. Sounds like have to have crossed the point of diminishing returns at some point and kept right on going.
 
Why? Because it is actually not crap or complicated. It is already up and running nicely minus the AxeFx that is coming in the next 48 hours.
I've had an Ultra, a II and a IIXL during the last decade so the new IIXL+ doesn't pose a threat to waste my time.

The second part of the answer is I decided 4or 5 modelers will cost less than 4 or 5 amps and yet deliver magnitudes more creative possibilities. I'll let you know if it becomes too much ;)
 
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