Input 1 gate vs using a Decimator.

Maybe I have simple ears, but….

Before I had an Axe Fx III, I used two ISP Decimators: One right before the amp and one right after (they were linked with a cable). I never noticed that the Decimators changed my tone.

After getting an Axe Fx III, I use the noise gate right after the cab, and once again, do not notice that it changes the tone at all.

I guess others have a different experience.
 
AlGrenadine said:
I've just ordered a decimator... Will make a comparison asap
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you should order Revv G8 also ..i had both decimator and Revv and Revv G8 works even better than decimator...and it´s cheaper ;-)

you can laugh, but one of the reason I love my Revv Generator mk3 is because of that exact noise gate/filter circuit.

You can clearly hear, how it filter out the noise while you play, but when I turn this gate off, I don´t hear any change in the sound.

It´s simply amazing..this would be a dream to have inside our fractal products.
 
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Zedhed said:
I'd suggest running line level (balanced -TRS cable) from the pre-amp into AxeFX input 3 or 4 & use gate on selected input only if necessary.
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Exactly. Running line level and not into Input 1 would make sense here.

There seems to be some confusion in this thread re @joesatch's setup. Assuming the gain staging is consistent when either the ISP and/or the Axe are added in line after the rack preamp, then both the ISP and the Axe III should be transparent enough to not colour the tone in any way. Would be good to hear some clips with both or either of those devices in line, both set to bypassed.

Perhaps it's the feel of the two gates that make the tone feel different. The Axe's gate in Intelligent mode can cripple the sound a bit on higher settings, which is why i prefer the Classic mode.

Also it's worth mentioning that within the Axe, if you have a Gate active before an Amp block, this actually gets rid of the amp hiss too, which normally in the analog domain would require a second gate post preamp to hush the natural hiss of the preamp. In the Axe, you don't need to run a gate after a high gain Amp block to get things silent.

In the OP's scenario, i think the Input 1 gate might be clamping down on the sound too much.

It would also help if we could see what the final destination of the sound is in the signal path...ie is it rack preamp with or without ISP into Axe, and then Axe Cab Block direct out?
 
My Name is Mud knows I’m on board with him. We were a few of the only ones saying the gate could be better, I think it’s a niche that involves being a modern metal chugga chugga player that previously used a decimator. Ever since the firmware that introduced the “modern” gate I’ve been more satisfied than I was. I place it after the amp block with sidechain source on input 1, can’t remember my knee type offhand. But the decimator is magical and did what I needed it to do with one knob. It adapts to your playing I swear. It tightened up during staccato riffing, and hardly ever choked out a note during leads. I really only disengaged it for desired feedback - for me it was truly set and forget. Even with the somewhat recent improvements to fractals gate, I have a control switch on the threshold for different scenes.
 
I have had a ISP Decimator since they came out, before my Fractal days. I now use it strictly for when I'm playing a single coil guitar on a heavy preset, which it does a great job on. Otherwise it's just the gate in the Input Block
 
blastbeatdown said:
My Name is Mud knows I’m on board with him. We were a few of the only ones saying the gate could be better, I think it’s a niche that involves being a modern metal chugga chugga player that previously used a decimator. Ever since the firmware that introduced the “modern” gate I’ve been more satisfied than I was. I place it after the amp block with sidechain source on input 1, can’t remember my knee type offhand. But the decimator is magical and did what I needed it to do with one knob. It adapts to your playing I swear. It tightened up during staccato riffing, and hardly ever choked out a note during leads. I really only disengaged it for desired feedback - for me it was truly set and forget. Even with the somewhat recent improvements to fractals gate, I have a control switch on the threshold for different scenes.
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I also have a decimator pedal and used it with my fm9. I tried the gate in the fm9 and put it after the amp block and changed the source to input 1 like it was suggested here. For some reason it didn’t really work as it should. Then i tried it first in the chain since the improvement on the last update,and there it was! I since then removed the decimator on my pedalboard.
 
Thomas Obester said:
you should order Revv G8 also ..i had both decimator and Revv and Revv G8 works even better than decimator...and it´s cheaper ;-)

you can laugh, but one of the reason I love my Revv Generator mk3 is because of that exact noise gate/filter circuit.

You can clearly hear, how it filter out the noise while you play, but when I turn this gate off, I don´t hear any change in the sound.

It´s simply amazing..this would be a dream to have inside our fractal products.
Click to expand...
Actually decimator is far cheaper here (eu). I could get a used decimator for 80 bucks while a used g8 is at about 140 bucks...
 
Chuck P said:
That documentation is fascinating @My name is mud . It seems to describe a gate + dynamic filter combined approach. I attempted to approximate this concept with a quick-and-dirty preset.

In this clip there are three sounds:

  1. Neither noise reduction technique - just an unadulterated Strat tone. Not very usable.
  2. Just the gate - even though the gate was dialed in very roughly, it does its normal nice job of chopping out noise between notes. However, during the final note decay, the gate obviously remains open and the noise essentially ruins the clip.
  3. The gate and a dynamic EQ. This Parametric EQ is controlled by an envelope follower such that it is basically flat when the guitar is loud, but the treble turns down as the guitar gets quieter.

I made a video even though I'm terrible at videos because it's fun to watch the EQ going bonkers while the guitar plays:



...Yeah, yeah, I know, leave the videos to Cooper. But still, for a rough hack, it's not terribly bad, eh? I think what would be better is this: Instead of just following the overall signal envelope at Input 1, if you could slice out a high-mid frequency range of the signal, and then use the volume of THAT to control the EQ. Then you would be saying "if the guitar is playing high mids loudly, leave it alone. If the guitar is NOT playing high mids loudly, start to EQ out the high mids." You could do even better by using a more refined EQ shape that really hones in on the buzz. Maybe you could use the tone match tech to tell the Axe "here's what the buzz sounds like by itself" and then the Axe could use that to dynamically shape the sound, or something...?

Greater minds than mine have explored this in vastly more depth, but perhaps this hints at what might be possible using tech that already ~exists in the Axe code.
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@Chuck P, are you willing to share the preset or the PEQ block?
 
unscarred said:
I also have a decimator pedal and used it with my fm9. I tried the gate in the fm9 and put it after the amp block and changed the source to input 1 like it was suggested here. For some reason it didn’t really work as it should. Then i tried it first in the chain since the improvement on the last update,and there it was! I since then removed the decimator on my pedalboard.
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If anyone cares these are my gate settings for tight chugs in a studio setting. Again this is the Modern Expander. For my Lead scene I still use the Classic Expander with the threshold at -60. For a great majority of us the gate in the Input is perfectly fine, but being able to place a gate anywhere on the grid is one of the things that initially drew me to Fractal - coupled with its more quiet operation overall. As always your milage may vary, you may think I'm nuts, etc etc but my playing leans heavily into a rhythmic style and I don't miss my Decimator really anymore. But there were definitely growing pains.
 

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blastbeatdown said:
If anyone cares these are my gate settings for tight chugs in a studio setting. Again this is the Modern Expander. For my Lead scene I still use the Classic Expander with the threshold at -60. For a great majority of us the gate in the Input is perfectly fine, but being able to place a gate anywhere on the grid is one of the things that initially drew me to Fractal - coupled with its more quiet operation overall. As always your milage may vary, you may think I'm nuts, etc etc but my playing leans heavily into a rhythmic style and I don't miss my Decimator really anymore. But there were definitely growing pains.
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A good thing to point out if it isn't obvious enough, is your setting should depend on the amp and also the style of preset (i.e., rhythm, lead, etc.). In a rhythm setting you can opt for more aggressive settings if you so choose, but for lead presets the gate may cut of the tail of your sustain. And of course proper gain staging helps too. I recently purchased some EMI filters which helped reduce some of the need for gating so aggressively in my studio. My methodology is similar to compression, it may be better to let several compressors do the work. I generally use several gates together without putting too heavy of a load on one.
 
hensh!n_vfs said:
A good thing to point out if it isn't obvious enough, is your setting should depend on the amp and also the style of preset (i.e., rhythm, lead, etc.). In a rhythm setting you can opt for more aggressive settings if you so choose, but for lead presets the gate may cut of the tail of your sustain. And of course proper gain staging helps too. I recently purchased some EMI filters which helped reduce some of the need for gating so aggressively in my studio. My methodology is similar to compression, it may be better to let several compressors do the work. I generally use several gates together without putting too heavy of a load on one.
Click to expand...
We know all that...
There's no way to approach the decimator currently in the axefx, that's the point
 
AlGrenadine said:
We know all that...
There's no way to approach the decimator currently in the axefx, that's the point
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I believe that is what the Wishlist thread is for right? I'm surprised no one has asked for it there yet.

I've owned several Decimators and did not find them to be much (if at all) different from the other gate's I've owned. The last time I ran it in front of the Axe III I don't recall it filtering any noise out of the signal, just opening and closing like a standard gate. But it has been a few years since I used one, and haven't compared it to the updated gates in the Axe III.

Noise filtering is really what we want though, rather than a just another open and close gate. I've heard good things about the G8, but have yet to try it.
 
Actually it does, will make a video of it. You have to be at high gig volume to really ear the difference
hensh!n_vfs said:
I believe that is what the Wishlist thread is for right? I'm surprised no one has asked for it there yet.

I've owned several Decimators and did not find them to be much (if at all) different from the other gate's I've owned. The last time I ran it in front of the Axe III I don't recall it filtering any noise out of the signal, just opening and closing like a standard gate. But it has been a few years since I used one, and haven't compared it to the updated gates in the Axe III.

Noise filtering is really what we want though, rather than a just another open and close gate. I've heard good things about the G8, but have yet to try it.
Click to expand...
 
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Point of information. Not sure if it's already been covered in the thread, but when speaking of a Decimator or the gates in FAS ecosystem, it's important to distinguish whether the side chain is keying off an input or simply gating inline. Understanding the Decimator Deci-Mate doesn't have a side chain, the Decimator II does. Cheers all, D
 
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weird guitar person said:
Point of information. Not sure if it's already been covered in the thread, but when speaking of a Decimator or the gates in FAS ecosystem, it's important to distinguish whether the side chain is keying off an input or simply gating inline. Understanding the Decimator (unversioned) doesn't have a side chain, the Decimator II does. Cheers all, D
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A decimator 1, on the Input is enough
 
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