Included samples and some help please

J

jason baliban

New Member
Hello,

This is my first post on the board.

I am in the middle of the 2 week trial for the Axe-FX Ultra and this thing is blowing my mind. Its actually pretty overwhelming.

I have been using the same amp for 20 years, so everything else just seems odd to my ears. I was hoping anyone could weigh in on some of the samples I have created.

Of the 6, 3 are through real amps and tube preamps and three are the axe-fx.

If anyone wants to give their opinion on the sounds maybe it will help me take the plunge and keep it.

Forgive my dirty recordings. I recorded everything through a power amp and a 4x12 cab with a sm57 mic.

I will share the key after a few replies.

Thank you so much for your help!

jB

SAMPLES:

http://baliban.com/audio/axe/1.mp3
http://baliban.com/audio/axe/2.mp3
http://baliban.com/audio/axe/3.mp3
http://baliban.com/audio/axe/4.mp3
http://baliban.com/audio/axe/5.mp3
http://baliban.com/audio/axe/6.mp3
 
To be honest, i didn't read your post properly before I listened to the clips.

They all sounded very similar to me, I just thought they were eq'd a little differently.
FWIW number 3 would be my preference as the best take although there was only a small amount in it.

I also listened to them all again once id read your post properly and compared each to the next one

1 better than 2
3 better than 2
3 better than 4
4 better than 5
6 better than 5

my guess is that 1 3 and 6 are the tube amp but thats based on a hunch not because I think they are better.

For me though the axe is not about copying any single sound exactly and not about comparing it next to a valve amp. Another forum I frequent there is a recurring argument from the valve users saying if you put a £2k valve amp next to the axe, the valve amp would sound better. I agree with that, but its not really comparing like for like. For me the axe has great sounds and is supremely flexible, a top notch valve amp sounds amazing but for me has 0 flexibility. I can't play it at home, i can't record it at home then when I change my mind about whether my favourite base tone comes from a marshall or a fender, I have to sell and buy a new amp (as I have done so many times).

I'd bet if you put those tones on an ipod, come back to them in a month when you have been working with other tones, put them on shuffle that you would have difficulty knowing which came from a valve amp.
 
I really appreciate you taking the time to listen to the tracks.

I agree with you 100% with the axe's flexibility. I guess in my situation I dont really have the extra money to spend on something that isnt going to replace my current amp.

I have a couple more days to decide.

Again, thank you so much for taking the time to listen. And i have more to say on your selections but i dont want to reveal the answers just yet.

jB
 
Here are 6 more with no drums so you can really hear the sound. I changed my mic placement and it seems things are a little brighter.

I put them in a different order this time.

To me that answer is becoming more clear.

I hope i dont seem whiny to folks, i am just trying to share how i make my decision here.

http://baliban.com/audio/axe/1a.mp3
http://baliban.com/audio/axe/2a.mp3
http://baliban.com/audio/axe/3a.mp3
http://baliban.com/audio/axe/4a.mp3
http://baliban.com/audio/axe/5a.mp3
http://baliban.com/audio/axe/6a.mp3
 
Here's my take:

1 = amp
2 = axe
3 = amp
4 = axe
5 = amp
6 = axe

The most pleasing sound, to my ear, was #3. Sounded much like what I am used to hearing, a mic-ed amp sound, with fullness, if lacking a little in definition.

2, 4, and 6 all had a harshness to the top end that was displeasing.

Though the amps lacked the harshness (of what I'm guessing was the Axe,) they had a muddy/loose bottom end. The Axe seemed to have much tighter tone, and the arpeggiated notes were cleaner-- but sounded a little too saturated and harsh.

I don't own an Axe yet, so I don't know if that can simply be EQ'd out.

Overall, unless you have bat ears, or are a tone snob, I could see using any of these tones (with some minor tweaking) to make a great recording!
 
With all due respect, I didn´t like any sample. For lack of a better word, all sounded fuzzy, "ragged" to me... 2 is the worst one. Of course it´s a matter of individual taste.
 
iggypop said:
With all due respect, I didn´t like any sample. For lack of a better word, all sounded fuzzy, "ragged" to me... 2 is the worst one. Of course it´s a matter of individual taste.
Click to expand...

2.mp3 or 2a.mp3?

No offense taken :cool:

jB
 
Alright, addressing your newest recordings:

1=axe
2=amp
3=amp
4=axe
5=axe
6=amp

I think what was unfair with this test, is that a real amp will be noisier than an Axe with a noise gate.

Both the Axe and amp tones were close this time (heck, I may have been fooled!).

In my opinion, here is what differentiated the Axe from the amp:

amp = noisier, slightly looser bottom end, when a power chord is arpeggiated the notes are not as well defined

axe = slightly tighter bottom end, slightly harsher top end, well defined note separation when a power chord rings out, and a somewhat (though not nearly as bad as Line6,) "buzzy" digital overtone.

Again, I may be wrong in my choices of what was a real amp, and what was the Axe.

If I WAS wrong, then my conclusions are irrelevant; if I perceived there to be a problem with the Axe's tone, there wasn't.

If my guesses WERE correct, then all that proves is that a tone obsessed music geek (me,) on a forum can differentiate between miniscule differences in frequency response between two recordings.

My opinion: go with what sounds best to you!

I love some tones that people hate-- I think Eric Johnson's overly processed sound on Ah Via Musicom beats anything ever recorded by anyone, period. My 2nd favorite tone comes from Ty Tabor, whose distortion came from a solid state amp and active pickups-- not a lot of warmth to be found, just awesome overdrive!
 
jason baliban said:
iggypop said:
With all due respect, I didn´t like any sample. For lack of a better word, all sounded fuzzy, "ragged" to me... 2 is the worst one. Of course it´s a matter of individual taste.
Click to expand...

2.mp3 or 2a.mp3?

No offense taken :cool:

jB
Click to expand...

Jason, sorry, I had not seen your second post, I was referring to 2.mp3 :)
I listened to the links in your first post, and replied, without reading OP´s comments, so I would not be biased.
I´m going to listen to your rearranged links now.
 
Yup, agreed.

2 and 3 sounded the best to me.

BUT, I think what the original poster wants is some opinions that his Axe sounds just as good as an amp...to which I reply, maybe in the time he's had to tweak it, it doesn't sound exactly like an amp yet. However, can a tube amp sound like a cello or a violin? Can a tube amp alone create a huge ambient soundscape? There are many things the Axe can do which a simple tube amp can't.

Good tones are good tones, regardless of where they come from. I mean, I think Neil Young's tone is horrible, and that comes from a tiny tube amp-- others love it.

To the OP, what do YOU think of the Axe? Do you enjoy it's versatility? Or does it frustrate you because it can't come close enough to the sound you want? Not all of us enjoy tweaking deep parameters. If the benefits of the Axe (easy direct recording, a simple portable rig, a ton of sounds,) don't outweigh the cost to you (an unsatisfying playing/recording experience,) then maybe you should ditch it.
:?
 
I really appreciate all of this input. It is VERY helpful to me!

Speedy - Thank you for your in depth responses. I think you and i think very similar when it comes to tone. To answer some of your questions...

I am a little frustrated with it. It is quite a bit to take in and really dial in the sound that I am looking for. I have heard that many people spend a lot of time getting new equip to sound like their old equip. That sounds funny but it feels very true to me.

I have yet to hear a distortion patch that has blown me away, but i will say i WANT to keep it for all the reasons you stated!! The problem is the $2k is a lot of money to spend if i just plug in my old amp everytime i am looking for the basic rhythm tracks to some of the stuff i write.

Thanks again!!

jB
 
I don't know how much info you have gathered from the forum about creating distortion patches; there is a TON of info about tweaking the parametric EQ, creating gain stages, setting noise gate levels/threshold/attack, using clean amps with distortion pedals as opposed to just high gain models, using redwirez cab impulses, I mean the list is ridiculously long!

At first, I had heard maybe 20 different youtube vids and recordings posted here (2 years ago,) and I was NOT impressed. Didn't sound any better to me than the Line 6 stuff I ditched years ago. (No offense to those who love their Line 6 gear; it didn't work for me.)

BUT, after intentionally seeking out all the tones I WANTED to hear from other forum members, I discovered that the Axe CAN sound as good as the tones I love.

The key here is this:

1. To know the exact tone you want, and how to describe it. Is it a thick/saturated/organic distortion? Is it a bouncy/round/dark/warm/ clean jazz tone? Is it a tight, upper-mid focused thrash tone?

2. Use all the forum members' knowledge (including the search function,) to your benefit. Don't be afraid to ask for help creating a patch. I personally would NEVER have thought of doing some of the weird programming things others have done in order to create a seemingly "routine" distortion patch. With a regular amp, you've got treble, mid, bass, (maybe a mid-shift button,) gain, and master volume. With the Axe (as you know,) you can do all sorts of manipulation to the base tone involving sag, power amp modeling, cab choice, parametric EQ, etc, etc. You would THINK that just choosing a preset "Diezel" or "Engl" or whatever, would instantly get you a perfectly awesome metal tone, but (from all I've read,) there is a lot of tweaking often times needed to get one's ideal sound.

2 weeks seems like too short a time to become proficient programming the Axe, based on all I've read. Heck, I tweaked my Line 6 Vetta II combo for 2 MONTHS before I finally gave up on it. But IF you have the desire to want to learn all the features involved, it seems you will end-up being satisfied. I wish I had an accurate percentage as to how many people keep their Axe and are satisfied with it in comparison to those who sell it, but I don't. In the absolute WORST case scenario, you can still keep the Axe just for FX....many people have commented that it is on par with higher end Eventide and Lexicon units....
 
I just wanted to quickly give the keys...

Well, I have to confess, I told a white lie. 4 were the Axe and 2 were real tube pre's. I wanted to see what axe patch was thought to be the most tube like. Sorry about that.

Amps
Peavey Ultra 60
ADA MP-2 tube preamp

The Axe Patches are..
Deutsches Metallduel - Patch 100 - Axe100
Petrucci Rhythm - Patch 329 - Axe329
Mark Day's Patch - AxeMark
Mark Day's Solo Path - AxeMarkSolo

Key

1 - Axe100
2 - AxeMark
3 - Peavey
4 - AxeMarkSolo
5 - MP2
6 - Axe329

1a - AxeMark
2a - Peavey
3a - Axe329
4a - Axe100
5a - MP2
6a - AxeMarkSolo


I will be doing some more samples tonight. I am going to use some of the presets through a cab, mic'd vs. direct in. Im sure you all cant wait;)

Thanks again for all your comments and suggestions!

jB
 
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