In Praise of the Virtual Capo ***FW 5.02b1***

As a fun experiment, I shifted the pitch down 5 semitones to simulate a 7-string guitar. Then I started playing the intro to Dream Theater's "Enemy Inside" and it was remarkably good, even shifted that far. Only the slightest detectable latency.

I have noticed, as someone else mentioned in beta thread, that the tuner has a lower refresh rate; almost choppy, actually. I wonder if the improved VC and the tuner issue are related?
 
Ugly Bunny said:
As a fun experiment, I shifted the pitch down 5 semitones to simulate a 7-string guitar. Then I started playing the intro to Dream Theater's "Enemy Inside" and it was remarkably good, even shifted that far. Only the slightest detectable latency.

I have noticed, as someone else mentioned in beta thread, that the tuner has a lower refresh rate; almost choppy, actually. I wonder if the improved VC and the tuner issue are related?
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It's the same for me too no matter how "loaded" the preset is (the tuner that is) but really not a deal breaker tbh. I'd take improvements in the real-time features above the tuner if that's one of the compromises that have to be made lol.
 
Ugly Bunny said:
As a fun experiment, I shifted the pitch down 5 semitones to simulate a 7-string guitar. Then I started playing the intro to Dream Theater's "Enemy Inside" and it was remarkably good, even shifted that far. Only the slightest detectable latency.

I have noticed, as someone else mentioned in beta thread, that the tuner has a lower refresh rate; almost choppy, actually. I wonder if the improved VC and the tuner issue are related?
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If that's the case, I'll gladly buy a SNARK over a Drop pedal. 😉
 
Ugly Bunny said:
Um... first of all... WHAT??!?!?!? Can you link me how to build that? That would be fantastic.

Secondly, yes, you're right; 6 monophonic pitch shifters. And the latency is better, but only slightly, and, by my tests at least, about the same when you take into account my margin of error (around 1ms). I clocked the Variax (I have a JTV-59 as well!) at 18ms, and the Drop, Axe Fx III, Fm3, & Helix all at about 20ms. Now, we also need to realize that the modelers in my test all have a baseline 2-3ms latency built-in, so if you subtract that, then the actual pitch-shifting itself is around the same as the Variax which isn't a big digital modeler.

YMMV; I would really like to see someone else repeat my tests and either corroborate or update the data. But it's tedious and I'm afraid not many people care about this (latency) as much as I do lol!
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Its easy to build, you just need a RJ45 Kable, cut one side and solder a DIN Plug as shown in my little drawing. I bought a higher flexible Ethercon Cable, but just for testing its ok with a cheap RJ45 Cable thats laying around.

Variax Midi Kabel.jpg

FM3 MIDI Block:
CC 07 for Variax Volume
CC 79 for Variax Tone

PC 00 - 04 Variax Custom 1 Presets
PC 55 -59 Variax Custom 2
PC 60 - 64 T-Model
PC 65 - 69 Spank
PC 70 - 74 Lester ...
 
Petrocelli said:
Its easy to build, you just need a RJ45 Kable, cut one side and solder a DIN Plug as shown in my little drawing. I bought a higher flexible Ethercon Cable, but just for testing its ok with a cheap RJ45 Cable thats laying around.

View attachment 94212

FM3 MIDI Block:
CC 07 for Variax Volume
CC 79 for Variax Tone

PC 00 - 04 Variax Custom 1 Presets
PC 55 -59 Variax Custom 2
PC 60 - 64 T-Model
PC 65 - 69 Spank
PC 70 - 74 Lester ...
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DUDE!! You just made my day. My ONE gripe with my setup was that I couldn't also change presets on my Variax with MIDI while everything else is controlled with MIDI. This is going to be awesome. Thank you so much :)

So, just to be clear, since you can save any model to pickup config on any turn of the dial, your PC list and the ellipses at the end just means that I can continue assigning them based on their position as a preset, correct?

Also, are there other MIDI CC's available?
 
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Ugly Bunny said:
DUDE!! You just made my day. My ONE gripe with my setup was that I couldn't also change presets on my Variax with MIDI while everything else is controlled with MIDI. This is going to be awesome. Thank you so much :)

So, just to be clear, since you can save any model to pickup config on any turn of the dial, your PC list and the ellipses at the end just means that I can continue assigning them based on their position as a preset, correct?

Also, are there other MIDI CC's available?
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Nice if i can make you happy!!!
You can overwrite each setting of the rotary model-pot in Variax Workbench. So use the 10 custom slots or also the model presets to create your own stuff and recall them with the FM3 MIDI Block. You have to experiment a little bit! Make a backup of your JTV, don't know if there is any risk on it.

I dont find a way to switch only tunings independently to the dialed in model with midi, so you have to create presets with alternative tunings baked in.
The MIDI CCs and PCs are not documented, so i dont know about other CC's.
 
Petrocelli said:
Nice if i can make you happy!!!
You can overwrite each setting of the rotary model-pot in Variax Workbench. So use the 10 custom slots or also the model presets to create your own stuff and recall them with the FM3 MIDI Block. You have to experiment a little bit! Make a backup of your JTV, don't know if there is any risk on it.

I dont find a way to switch only tunings independently to the dialed in model with midi, so you have to create presets with alternative tunings baked in.
The MIDI CCs and PCs are not documented, so i dont know about other CC's.
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This'll be fun to experiment with. I wonder if I contact the James Tyler folks if they'll give me the specs or if they'll just say not to do it at all lol!
 
To add to the discussion, I tried the virtual capo for the first time last night. I don't have a reference point for comparing the previous firmware to the current beta. I did not even bother with it previously because my experiences with other pitch shifters in the past (digitech gsp 2101, digitech whammy generation, Line 6 permutations such the Vetta and two variaxes ages ago, Axe Fx II) was underwhelming. For me it was always the artifacts more so than the latency, it just didn't sound good. Out of curiosity (sparked by all these threads about the virtual capo) though I pulled it up last night. I find the current virtual capo in the FM3 potentially usable, I was surprised. I will test it at band practices this week, as perhaps cranked to band volume the artifacts will be more irksome. But at a decent room volume it was sounding good with 1/2 step and a full step down. Definitely useable for band practice, not sure yet about a gig.
 
prufroc8 said:
To add to the discussion, I tried the virtual capo for the first time last night. I don't have a reference point for comparing the previous firmware to the current beta. I did not even bother with it previously because my experiences with other pitch shifters in the past (digitech gsp 2101, digitech whammy generation, Line 6 permutations such the Vetta and two variaxes ages ago, Axe Fx II) was underwhelming. For me it was always the artifacts more so than the latency, it just didn't sound good. Out of curiosity (sparked by all these threads about the virtual capo) though I pulled it up last night. I find the current virtual capo in the FM3 potentially usable, I was surprised. I will test it at band practices this week, as perhaps cranked to band volume the artifacts will be more irksome. But at a decent room volume it was sounding good with 1/2 step and a full step down. Definitely useable for band practice, not sure yet about a gig.
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Overdrive or distortion works perfectly fine. Clean signal is still wonky; gig volume or otherwise. And, as someone who's gigged even 4.1, the new 5.0b1 is VERY giggable. Hell, even I even gigged 4.1, so that tells you how this unithas adjusted my standards. But rest assured: the new VC is incredible.
 
angelworm said:
I’m still waiting for Cliff writing “we didn’t change the pitch block” 😃
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Yep. I'd 100% believe him, which is why I'm terrified they'll accidentally change it back to being bad just as accidentally as they fixed it. Given the low DSP inserting the Pitch block raises the percentage by, it seems pretty clear that the pitch algorithm is running the whole time, meaning that whatever change they made that made the pitch block stellar is bigger than just the pitch block; so there's potential for them to fix the choppy tuner and those changes might make the Virtual Capo go back to the way it was.

I may stay on 5.0b1 literally forever lol.
 
Ugly Bunny said:
Yep. I'd 100% believe him, which is why I'm terrified they'll accidentally change it back to being bad just as accidentally as they fixed it. Given the low DSP inserting the Pitch block raises the percentage by, it seems pretty clear that the pitch algorithm is running the whole time, meaning that whatever change they made that made the pitch block stellar is bigger than just the pitch block; so there's potential for them to fix the choppy tuner and those changes might make the Virtual Capo go back to the way it was.

I may stay on 5.0b1 literally forever lol.
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9 Brilliant Inventions Made by Mistake

10. FM3 5.0b Virtual Capo
 
Just showed up to a rehearsal and the female lead was out sick, so I had to transpose a song from D to F, and it had a bunch of droning open strings throughout. Added the virtual capo set at +3 and it worked great. I guess we still don't have confirmation of any change, but it definitely sounded better to me. When playing through the PA and without the band, I literally couldn't hear any artifacts.

And yes, I had a 'real' capo and could have used it, but I would have had to mentally shift everything up 3 frets. This was much easier for this song.

I'll likely buy another FM3 at some point now as a gig backup. Thanks Fractal!
 
JD_ said:
Just showed up to a rehearsal and the female lead was out sick, so I had to transpose a song from D to F, and it had a bunch of droning open strings throughout. Added the virtual capo set at +3 and it worked great. I guess we still don't have confirmation of any change, but it definitely sounded better to me. When playing through the PA and without the band, I literally couldn't hear any artifacts.

And yes, I had a 'real' capo and could have used it, but I would have had to mentally shift everything up 3 frets. This was much easier for this song.

I'll likely buy another FM3 at some point now as a gig backup. Thanks Fractal!
Click to expand...
Very cool! Yeah, it's still a little irksome that there hasn't been a single word of official response to the Virtual Capo's improvement, but I'm damn thankful it was improved, even if accidentally. Again, I suspect they either haven't noticed my thread/tests/posts or they're stumped as to why it's better and are running their own tests before making any statement.

I haven't had ANY issues with artifacts except when playing clean; but even then, I'll take artifacts over latency any day. We play Weezer's "Undone - the Sweater Song" and the intro is dropped 1/2 step and the clean picked guitar that goes from G to C to D almost sounds like there's a bit of a tremolo on the sound. So, if you were the audience, you might just think I was using an effect; I don't think you'd hear it as an artifact, in the full-band performance context :)

unix-guy said:
Wait... The female lead was out so you had to pitch up 3 semi tones?

Is Barry Gibb your fill in? ;)
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I know you're just joking, but in case there is anyone reading this who might not get it, all that means is that it was effectively lowered 9 semitones. I've often had to raise the key in order for it to be low enough to sing lol. Hanson used to play "MMMbop" in A, but as they've grown up, they now play it in E (I'll always take the opportunity to mention my favorite band lol!!)
 
Ugly Bunny said:
Very cool! Yeah, it's still a little irksome that there hasn't been a single word of official response to the Virtual Capo's improvement, but I'm damn thankful it was improved, even if accidentally. Again, I suspect they either haven't noticed my thread/tests/posts or they're stumped as to why it's better and are running their own tests before making any statement.
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I'm not sure why they wouldn't address it either, but my guess would be that they are aware of what changed and the change was intentional. :)

Ugly Bunny said:
I haven't had ANY issues with artifacts except when playing clean; but even then, I'll take artifacts over latency any day. We play Weezer's "Undone - the Sweater Song" and the intro is dropped 1/2 step and the clean picked guitar that goes from G to C to D almost sounds like there's a bit of a tremolo on the sound. So, if you were the audience, you might just think I was using an effect; I don't think you'd hear it as an artifact, in the full-band performance context :)
Click to expand...
I haven't tried it clean in a band context; fortunately this song allowed for a tone with a bit of grit on it, so it was fine.

Ugly Bunny said:
I know you're just joking, but in case there is anyone reading this who might not get it, all that means is that it was effectively lowered 9 semitones. I've often had to raise the key in order for it to be low enough to sing lol. Hanson used to play "MMMbop" in A, but as they've grown up, they now play it in E (I'll always take the opportunity to mention my favorite band lol!!)
Click to expand...
Exactly, the +3 let me align with a -9 drop.
 
Oh this is definitely much improved. I was finding the VC unusable for my purposes before because of latency and now it's working exactly as I'd hoped it would.
 
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