In-ear monitoring

Hello friends,

i know the subject has already been discussed but not extensively.

i use Axefx 3 for yeas now with my Xitone cabs. Sounds fantastic.
i have recently acquired Shure SE 846 , which are kind of the best from their In-ears.

i have noticed a lot of fizziness in the sound ( which wasn’t heard on the xitone or my audio-technica headphones)

i tried to add room on the cab, eq it, tried other cabs, added a parametric eq and tried to eq it, seems hard to get rid off those 2000-4000hz nasty frequencies without affecting the general tone.

do you have a similar experience? What’s your walk around? Do you manage to have a satisfying sound with the in-ears especially with distorded tones?

thank you for your help and contribution.
 
Hi,
I have some se846 in ears as well. I’ve found them to be pretty accurate. I’m wondering if perhaps the monitors you used to create the presets may have had a hole around 4k. If that was the case, you’d overcompensate that area and the preset would sound great on the monitor, but not anywhere else.
Have you tried some of the factory presets?
Thanks
Pauly
 
Hi. Before you get nuts and adjusting everything to bits and pieces.

Thi FFFffzzzziiiines is normal when using in ear.

You need too figure out if you wand ear-molded adapters for your Shures. Because those will actually remove som of that. So if you want perfect fit (also when smiling), get some molded ear pieces as a 1. Thing.

This is my experience.

Other than that, you just have to make all your sounds using the in ear and get used to it.
 
Hi. Before you get nuts and adjusting everything to bits and pieces.

Thi FFFffzzzziiiines is normal when using in ear.

You need too figure out if you wand ear-molded adapters for your Shures. Because those will actually remove som of that. So if you want perfect fit (also when smiling), get some molded ear pieces as a 1. Thing.

This is my experience.

Other than that, you just have to make all your sounds using the in ear and get used to it.
Thanks for avoiding me to get nuts 😅😅😅
 
Hi,
I have some se846 in ears as well. I’ve found them to be pretty accurate. I’m wondering if perhaps the monitors you used to create the presets may have had a hole around 4k. If that was the case, you’d overcompensate that area and the preset would sound great on the monitor, but not anywhere else.
Have you tried some of the factory presets?
Thanks
Pauly
Thanks for your help. Yes i tried with factory presets and still the same.
thing is I tried not only on the Xitone , but my Yamaha studio monitors and the audio-technica. They all sound great.
it S as if the lack of air enhances the fizziness. or maybe I should change my ears 😅
 
Or, they are accurately reproducing the fizz that was always there. Although it’s not pleasant right in your earhole, that fizz is important to cut through a mix. Time and time again I’ve dialled it out and then wonder why at a gig it sounds dull. I have also accidentally had a wah on a number of times, and my band mate says hey that sounded fantastic! but it would sound raspy and horrid in isolation. I turn it off and hey whaddayaknow, can’t hear myself as well in the mix.

If you’re playing at home, try piping some music through usb input and pop that into your ear mix as well. I bet your guitar will sound much better!
 
I find that most IEM systems have a harsh high Mid thing going on. Have you had a look at the headphone corrective EQ thread in this forum? Its a pretty impressive resource to check out. Should be easily found.
 
I find that most IEM systems have a harsh high Mid thing going on. Have you had a look at the headphone corrective EQ thread in this forum? Its a pretty impressive resource to check out. Should be easily found.
Thank you for the tip I ll check it out. Or do you have a link maybe ?
I agree I think they reproduce the sound faithfully, even if in ears, usual,y tend to enhance trebly frequencies in genera, but since there is no air it becomes particularly agressive.
thanks
 
Or, they are accurately reproducing the fizz that was always there. Although it’s not pleasant right in your earhole, that fizz is important to cut through a mix. Time and time again I’ve dialled it out and then wonder why at a gig it sounds dull. I have also accidentally had a wah on a number of times, and my band mate says hey that sounded fantastic! but it would sound raspy and horrid in isolation. I turn it off and hey whaddayaknow, can’t hear myself as well in the mix.

If you’re playing at home, try piping some music through usb input and pop that into your ear mix as well. I bet your guitar will sound much better!
I agree With you, the fizz is definitely originally there But the lack of air makes it louder.
The question was rather how to make it more pleasant to play. I usually separate the FOH lime from my monitor to be able to have separate eq but it is still quite unpleasant.
thanks for your help
 
One of the better things I've tried for my in-ear sound was to find isolated guitar tracks and compare to those routed through the fractal.

That and listening in context, even if it's just a commercial track going through my in-ears.

Things change in both situations compared to any monitoring in isolation.
 
One of the better things I've tried for my in-ear sound was to find isolated guitar tracks and compare to those routed through the fractal.

That and listening in context, even if it's just a commercial track going through my in-ears.

Things change in both situations compared to any monitoring in isolation.
Interesting idea. Could you maybe explain further how does it help you adjust your tone and playing? I mean how does listening to commercial tracks concretely help you adjusting your tone? Thanks for your input.
 
Run your in-ears through a separate output. Add a PEQ before that output and make a couple of small surgical cuts (narrow, low attenuation) to remove some of the fizziness without affecting your FOR or FRFR outputs.

Also, don't forget to low pass your in-ear output. This will make a huge difference.
Of course tht’a what I tried immediately to do. Just that I don t seem to isolate those bad frequencies without affecting the general tone. Thx
 
Interesting idea. Could you maybe explain further how does it help you adjust your tone and playing? I mean how does listening to commercial tracks concretely help you adjusting your tone? Thanks for your input.

There's always going to be a difference between a live sound and a recorded/mixed/mastered sound. You have to be able to kind of separate that in your head. It's easier with very good live recordings (even though they're still mixed and limited....they're usually messed with a little less than, say, a loudness war casualty from the 90s).

But...if I can play along with a song that I know, with me set about right in the mix, with both playing through my mains or my in-ears, it seems like that's closer to what would work in that context. It's mostly that it's really easy to set up and hear by myself rather than either having to make/record an entire track just to hear myself in context or (theoretically) making other people wait for me while I tweak little things they can't hear. You could use backing tracks the same way.

It's kind of answering the question: "what would I have to do to fit in with their mix if I was another guitarist at that performance?" If I have to add drastic EQs or compression or do a bunch of DAW tricks....either that mix doesn't work for what I'm trying to do or the sound coming out of the Fractal is very wrong.

I'm not convinced that it's the "best" way to do it. But, it seems like a better "starting point" than just making something that sounds good in isolation.

The funny thing is that when I take sounds I've tweaked like that and then play them in isolation....they still sound good. Usually more band-limited, a little fizzier, a little thinner. But still a good sound.

If I go the other way and try to set something up that sounds great in isolation an then try to play with other musicians, backing tracks, live recordings, or pretty much anything else....I start tweaking again.

I did this before Fractal with a more traditional rig as well, and it worked decently.

As far as the isolated guitar tracks....they're more of a concrete reference for how far I can go, especially with band-limiting, and still wind up with something that I can expect will sound good in context. For that, it works better to find sounds on the "edge" of what I like. For example, if I know a recording that has a guitar that is just barely not too strident in the mix and can find an isolated guitar track for it....then I have a concrete reference for how strident of a sound I like. If I also can find an isolated track that's just barely not too mellow in the full track, then I have a concrete reference on the other end of that particular aspect.

So as long as my guitar-only sounds are "between" them, it's going to be okay. If you wind up with enough things like that, they define a creative "fence". As long as you stay inside that fence, you're free to create and explore with the confidence that you're not going off the deep end in some nonproductive direction.

FWIW, that general idea (define the fence, then literally just play inside it) is also how I learned to mix and master. And while I'm neither famous nor prolific (so take it with a grain of salt)....I have done those things professionally and am pretty confident in my abilities. And I seemed to pick them up faster than a lot of the people I was learning with. I definitely stole the way I describe it from Brian Lucey, but it seemed like the right way to do it basically right after my first total cluttered mess of a mix in the electronic music lab in high school. In his words "There's no freedom without a fence." ....because you don't know how far is far enough until you can define too far.

In my mind, reference tracks don't define any kind of target. They define the edges of good. Yes, I have some "amazing" mixes/masters in my collection of reference tracks. But, they're definitely the minority.

If you've been performing or recording for a while and have multitracks of your own stuff...and you can just mute yourself from the recorded mix, that's probably even better. I'm sure there are other ways to hear what you're doing "in context", but that seems like one easy way to do it alone. And as your "career" progresses, you can just move from basing your fence off other people's music to using your own.
 
A lot of the anomalies you site are, in my judgement, one of the sonic side-effects of “armature-driven” IEMs (which most are), many of which use multiple armatures that require internal passive crossover networks (or external electronic DSP) that can create harshness in the MR and that fizziness in the HF. I switched to FutureSonics IEM products for that exact reason — rather than “hearing-aid” based armatures, FS uses a proprietary single “itsy-bitsy” full-range speaker-type driver in each IEM. No crossover, smoother sound and very accurate.
 
Dangerous turf here (as I greatly admire all that Coop does) but I find my Inner SoundMan cringing just a little on two points in his IEM video. Since the point of IEMs is to decrease the overall stage volume (to save your hearing while also improving the FOH sound) I hesitate to agree about adding wedges and/or guitar speakers back in to underpin the IEM sound. And while getting the best sound in your ears is super-important to your performance, I wouldn’t want to compromise the quality of what the Axe is sending to FOH to compensate for ragged IEM sound — they’re both important. Listen to music you know through your IEM chain — and if THAT doesn’t sound right then maybe you need to consider how to correct/improve the chain before altering your presets/etc.

I’d add that setting up a dedicated “audience/room ambience” mic (nothing fancy required) and making it available to the IEM mix can inexpensively help reduce the “weirdly-isolated” feeling some object to — and can make the transition to ears easier while also helping to re-cement the performer/audience connection.
 
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