Imput levels - Axe FX3, still confused.

chris said:
The main reason for the question is people don’t hear any difference with most settings of the Input level. They expect changing it to “do something” but it doesn’t change what they hear.

Even with a distinct clip light, the question will come up because these questions always come up. We’ve even had “my tone is better when it clips, you should do it too” comments. People are always looking for “better tone” and explore every part in case they overlooked something, and Input seems to be a logical place for that.

But this setting is simple and boring: Set the Input Level to where the Input red light on the front panel occasionally turns on.

That’s all there is to it.
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It’s no longer called “input level”. It’s now called sensitivity. That has helped eliminate a lot of confusion about what it does.

There’s still confusion, which is the question here, about how to optimize the sensitivity. The problem is the meters, both on the front panel and the meters page, lack sufficient precision. The only way to avoid that issue is with a more precise meter. Maybe in the next gen Fractal device that could be addressed.
 
GlennO said:
It’s no longer called “input level”. It’s now called sensitivity. That has helped eliminate a lot of confusion about what it does.

There’s still confusion, which is the question here, about how to optimize the sensitivity. The problem is the meters, both on the front panel and the meters page, lack sufficient precision. The only way to avoid that issue is with a more precise meter. Maybe in the next gen Fractal device that could be addressed.
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The real problem is that there's a control to adjust input sensitivity/gain, but behind the scenes, the Axe automatically adjusts gain to optimize signal to noise ratio, regardless of that setting.

I never hear it doing that, but the observed fact is that the end-user control doesn't have much effect, so the auto-leveling circuitry does its job well.

Net result is that there's a control with minimal impact on what we hear, so naturally there will be debate on how to set it.

Personally I don't worry about it much, it doesn't have much effect :)
 
Dave Merrill said:
The real problem is that there's a control to adjust input sensitivity/gain, but behind the scenes, the Axe automatically adjusts gain to optimize signal to noise ratio, regardless of that setting.

I never hear it doing that, but the observed fact is that the end-user control doesn't have much effect, so the auto-leveling circuitry does its job well.

Net result is that there's a control with minimal impact on what we hear, so naturally there will be debate on how to set it.

Personally I don't worry about it much, it doesn't have much effect :)
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The "real" problem? I think people are projecting what they think the problem is onto GuitarGuy316 :).

There are a couple of problems with input optimization, but the one GuitarGuy316 is asking about is: How do you adjust the sensitivity so it is full range without clipping? As he says, the current process is rather vague and subjective. The simple fact is there is no clipping indicator on the Axe-FX. So you can't be certain it isn't clipping. If it's tickling the red, there's a good chance it's not clipping, but the better way to indicate clipping is the way most digital devices do it: with a dedicated LED to indicate clipping. It's not a big problem, but it would be nice if the next gen Fractal device had a clipping LED.
 
GlennO said:
The "real" problem? I think people are projecting what they think the problem is onto GuitarGuy316 :).

There are a couple of problems with input optimization, but the one GuitarGuy316 is asking about is: How do you adjust the sensitivity so it is full range without clipping? As he says, the current process is rather vague and subjective. The simple fact is there is no clipping indicator on the Axe-FX. So you can't be certain it isn't clipping. If it's tickling the red, there's a good chance it's not clipping, but the better way to indicate clipping is the way most digital devices do it: with a dedicated LED to indicate clipping. It's not a big problem, but it would be nice if the next gen Fractal device had a clipping LED.
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Thanks for the defense. What one man’s tickling is might be another man’s clipping 😎

That was just my point is it seems rather subjective. Using active pickups I’m hitting the red maybe every few strums or notes but it’s not constantly hit red with every stroke. I guess I’ll just leave it at the default setting but I’ll look into that meter page mentioned by Cliff…might give you a better sense of what your actual level is at.
 
Pretty sure I just followed the instructions in the manual a few years ago and set it to the hottest guitar in my rotation. Never had to mess with it again. If memory serves it's pretty much set the same as setting input on older digitech stuff but different than avoiding the clipping LED on some other gear.
 
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If you want more precision. Record a DI track via USB Input 5 or 6, zoom way in on the waveform and look for flat, clipped peaks. If you see clipping, turn the input sensitivity down a bit and repeat until it stops.
 
Dave Merrill said:
The real problem is that there's a control to adjust input sensitivity/gain, but behind the scenes, the Axe automatically adjusts gain to optimize signal to noise ratio, regardless of that setting.

I never hear it doing that, but the observed fact is that the end-user control doesn't have much effect, so the auto-leveling circuitry does its job well.

Net result is that there's a control with minimal impact on what we hear, so naturally there will be debate on how to set it.

Personally I don't worry about it much, it doesn't have much effect :)
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It's a compensated input level adjustment, so if you change the signal level by X dB before the converters, it is also simultaneously adjusted in the opposite direction X dB after the converters. That's why you don't really hear a difference, except at settings below 5%. AFAIK there's nothing automatic about it.
 
i wrote something logical explaining things, but it's just not worth it. things will always be taken to the nth degree here to show how much more correct someone is vs a simple answer.
 
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GuitarGuy316 said:
I messed with this today and had to go down to 7% to not get into the red at all with EMGs. The default is 50%…
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It's not unusual to need a low sensitivity value when using active pickups. If you're not seeing any red at all, you might be a bit low and your signal might be a little noisier than it would otherwise be. If you're afraid a higher value that pushes the meter into the red might be clipping, the procedure Mr. Fender described is the best way to check that it's ok.
 
GlennO said:
It's not unusual to need a low sensitivity value when using active pickups. If you're not seeing any red at all, you might be a bit low and your signal might be a little noisier than it would otherwise be. If you're afraid a higher value that pushes the meter into the red might be clipping, the procedure Mr. Fender described is the best way to check that it's ok.
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I was just comparing vs. the default 50% I was hitting red on maybe half the notes while chugging. Down to 7% is like no red but getting back to 10-15% gets in the red but not as much as the default 50%.
 
So would using a wireless system affect this setting any? Could there be any variation from unit to unit? No matter which guitar I use through my Line6 G50 into my FM9, I have to crank that control WAY down to keep from a pretty constant red light.
 
Hi folks,

Reviving this thread for a bit of a problem:

I’m not sure if it’s the new firmware update or what, but suddenly the input meter for my guitar is much higher.

I’ve turned down the A/D sensitivity to only 4% and it’s still hitting red far too much. Not sure what’s going on. It’s not like my guitar just magically got hotter?
 
DXMG503 said:
Hi folks,

Reviving this thread for a bit of a problem:

I’m not sure if it’s the new firmware update or what, but suddenly the input meter for my guitar is much higher.

I’ve turned down the A/D sensitivity to only 4% and it’s still hitting red far too much. Not sure what’s going on. It’s not like my guitar just magically got hotter?
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I believe that levels got reset after a big update
 
Since we are talking about levels I have a couple questions:

1.) Nearly all presets I load up are way into the red on the Output 1. Is there possibly an issue or do I just back the level down until its not red anymore?

2.) If your A/D sens is set correctly would the looper block not show any clipping?
 
1. Red on the the meter in the Out 1 block does not show clipping. The zero dB line on that meter is just a target sweet spot for a good strong level but still ample headroom (about -12dBFS). Where you don't want to see red is on the front panel LED output meter and only maybe a flicker or two of red on the LED input meter when playing hard.

2. Yes, if it's set correctly you shouldn't have any issues with clipping on the grid. The Axe FX uses floating point math in it's internal processing, so the amount of virtual headroom between blocks is very high. Unless you're doing something very wrong, clipping on the grid is generally not a concern. The two places you are more likely to get clipping is at the input A/D converters (hence setting the input sensitivity) and at the output D/A converters (which is largely determined by how high you set the front panel OUT knobs).
 
Stock and third party both. This has happened pretty much since I got the Axe Fx 3 I think. If I make my own preset I turn the level down in the output block.

This is what I was referring to in the looper block. If I play a really chuggy riff it will basically be flat at the top if that makes sense.

1670991225603.png
 
Exeter said:
Since we are talking about levels I have a couple questions:

1.) Nearly all presets I load up are way into the red on the Output 1. Is there possibly an issue or do I just back the level down until its not red anymore?

2.) If your A/D sens is set correctly would the looper block not show any clipping?
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If the output 1 meter on the front panel is in the red, your output 1 knob is probably too high.

That part of the looper block that you’re showing isn’t used to measure what you’re talking about. For levels on the looper block, scroll to the meters tab so you can see the levels of every block on the grid. It should be fine.
 
Yeah the waveform display in the looper block just shows a nominal waveform level and doesn't show clipping of any sort. Even with that waveform fully pegged, the output of the looper block is still crystal clear.
 
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