I'm on the fence. Convince me...

mr_fender

mr_fender

Axe-Master
Hey all.

First post here. I've been eyeing the Axe FX II for some time now and I'm close to pulling the trigger. My biggest hesitation is there is nowhere around here to try one out in person. I'm in Austin, so no stores around carry them. I've listened to a million demo clips and youtube videos. It sounds great, but I'm used to that amp in the room thing. My current rig is a Mesa Boogie Mark IV head through two home made 1x12 thiele cabinet clones with EVM-12Ls. I use a Line 6 M13 in the four cable setup for effects. I mostly use a strat and a Les Paul, both have passive pickups. My main styles are classic rock and old school metal, but I dabble in a bit of everything like blues, jazz, country, rockabilly, surf, modern metal, etc. I'm naturally a tweaker, so complexity is not a problem. In fact I love all of the customization possibilities in the Axe FX. I really wish the M13 had more tweakable parameters. I know the Axe is unsurpassed for studio work and recording, and the FX are way better than the M13, but I'm hesitant about using it live. Again I'm all about the amp in a room tone. I'm not really a tube snob, but there is certainly something magical about the response and feel of a good tube amp cranked up loud in the room. Can the Axe FX really capture that mojo live. Another thing is most of the demo clips online are super heavy tones. They sound great, but how does the Axe handle mid gain touch sensitive tones like a pushed plexi and that jangly edge of breakup tone like a lightly pushed AC-30 or super reverb. My playing style is very dynamic and I make good use of the guitars volume and tone controls too. I'm really hoping that the Axe will be a viable live replacement for my Mark IV in terms of feel and tone.

The setup I'm thinking about using is the Axe II feeding a Matrix GT800FX (or something similar) into my two 1x12 thiele cabs with EVM-12L's in stereo. Would I be better served going with FRFR cabs over the thieles? I don't want to spend a fortune, so dual atomic CLRs are a bit out of my budget for now. I'd probably use a FC1010 to control the Axe as well. The MFC101 is really nice, but $750 is steep. I figure I'll start with the basics and upgrade if needed later. There seems to be a lot of FC1010 users that are perfectly happy with them.

Sorry for the novel here, but it's a lot of dough to throw down on something I've never played through and have to wait in line for. Any pointers or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
As far as dynamic medium gain stuff, yes, the Axe II can do that.
The Plexi models, AC30 TB, Badger 30 are the ones I've worked with the most.
Responds to pick attack and gtr volume really well.

I use mine strictly direct to recording gear or FOH listening thru headphones.
I needed a better solution for those times I can't use amp+speaker.
And the Axe II certainly is that.
So I can't help you with the amp in a room thing.

Like you, I was on the fence and finally jumped in.
It's deep, but lots of good stuff in there.

It's a great tool, but it's not my entire toolbox yet.
Still it's not doing everything my tube amps do for me.
YMMV.
 
Hey, welcome to the Fractal forums, good to have you with us.

There are about twenty forum members here from Austin. At least, they put "Austin" into the Location field on their forum profiles. :)

You might search them out and see if they'd be willing to let you check out the Axe-Fx in person. You might even be able to hear it at a local show.

Also, Fractal Audio has a 15-day, money-back guarantee, for when you are ready to audition the unit in your own studio. See Fractal Audio Systems Secure Online Store for details.
 
For the amp in the room part, I can't really make any major suggestions as I just go straight to IEM, but I'd imagine you could use an output without amp/cab sim and send it to the poweramp for your cabs, and still do an XLR to the PA. After a very short adjustment period many years ago, I haven't looked back at needing onstage cabs - in fact I managed to convert my whole band.

For controllers, the FCB was a giant pain in the butt for me and didn't do at all what I wanted to do, I hated the FCB so much I was ready to return my axe. However, after talking with M@ I went ahead and bought and MFC prior to returning my Axe, once I had that there was no looking back.

As far as tones and mid stuff goes, I'd be happy to send you some private videos of my band, just send me a DM here or email kevinmpeters @ gmail dot com. We don't do any oldschool metal type stuff, but we do play all over the board within the rock genre for the last 30 years, so you can imagine the types of tones I'm going for.

As a former Mesa Dual Rec Solo and Soldano Hot Rod 50 owner, I'm glad I am able to get tones that are so close I probably couldn't tell them apart in a blind test, and my back is happy the Axe weighs a ton less.... I may not get 100% of the way there, but I can do a lot more tricks with this pony, and at this point I have no desire to compare my current tones to tones I got on old gear. The moment you start caring about the tone your getting and not perfectly matching some big heavy box and big heavy cab that never sounded the same through the PA and onstage anyway, is the moment you find way more happiness in time spent playing.

HTH

kevin
 
Skip the matrix, use your Mesa either in the 4cm or direct into the effects return to retain the feel and nuances of a tubed amp. It sounds better IMO. You already know the benefits of 4cm. Now take the possibilities of your M13 and raise the bar 100 times over with the addition of better effects and a multitude of different amps. This coming from a tube tone snob who's been a die hard Mesa guy for years...as well as an M9 user in one of my midi racks. I'll never ditch my Mesas, and having so much more with the axe in my arsenal only makes for an insane amount of tones and tunes. Just my 2 cents.
 
There are a few guys on the forum that live in Austin, you might give a shout out to see if anyone would be interested in letting you demo their Axe.
 
As mentioned, there are a number of members who are in Austin and no doubt, someone will chime in. Failing that, if your ever in the Fort worth area your welcome to try my setup. I have the matrix 800 driving a Bogner 2x12 (v30) as well as FRFR setup. Control is MFC and three mission pedals.
Pretty close to what your considering. And of course there is the trial period.

Naturally, everyone is different and it's a very personal thing depending on perspective....but for me, I can't think of a better purchase I have ever made...if I won the powerball tomorrow, my rig would not change at all.

My $.02
 
About a year ago, I dove in from a dual Marshall fullstack + midi controlled rack, and it took about 3 months to fully come to terms with it. I was a tube guy for 26 years prior. I play in a classic metal and hard rock cover band and we cover everything from CCR to Godsmack. The Axe FX II does it all with ease. I tried the 4cm method, I also tried it as a preamp into poweramp inserts of my Marshalls. I tried renting powered FRFR speakers and also tried using a power amp in to passive FRFR speakers. I was happy, but not really "holy shitballs!" and it wasn't until I bought a pair of CLR powered wedges that I really started to get it. Yes you can use your Mesa and it will be able to sound good, but the power amp modeling along with the cabinet IR is a huge part of why this thing does what it does so well, and these don't really work well when not using an non coloring amp and FRFR speakers.

I am only using the CLR's as personal monitors, not as a backline, as the rest of the band gets me in their monitors and I am direct to FOH. Since the 1st gig over a year ago, each gig I've tweaked and narrowed in on the tones and they just keep getting better and better.

It really comes down to your outlook. If you keep being a skeptic and always looking for what's missing, you are always going to find it, even if there is nothing missing. If you need convincing then you may be one of those that will never be happy unless you are using the real thing. Many guys have said they can't tell the difference, and many have said they can. We all can't be right, so IMO at this point it really just boils down to personal preferences.
 
What Severed said +1,000,000.

I've been playing through a Mesa tube amp with six 6L6 GC's for over 30yrs. I traded it all in for what Cliff&Co. is offering.

I bought a pair of CLR Neos, a Pedaltrain Grande, a pair of Mission and Boss expression pedals for a MKIII MFC and I couldn't be happier.

Thanks to Cliff I not only have a plethora of Mesa's to choose from, but I also have everything else under the sun.

And I have the piece of mind and faith that he will hunt down and kill any shortcomings in modeling and IR technologies.

So all aboard the FAS train to tonal nirvana my fellow Fractalites! : encouragement:


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A lot of great advice given already so there's not much to add.

How well you'll be satisfied with using your existing cabs depends on if you're willing, at least for the moment, to stick to the tone they provide and not try and dive into all the other amp/cab sounds in the Axe. If you do want to do that, you'll probably be a little less than satisfied. My guess in the long run is that you'll want some FRFR setup. :)

The FCB (suggest getting the UnO firmware upgrade) will give you basic control and should be enough to get things rolling. The problem I'm running into is that as I get into the box more there is just SO much that can be controlled and the FCB has a smallish amount of buttons available. The FCB has ten and I could probably utilize 20 without much trouble. :-D
 
Thanks for the input everyone. The Axe is really sounding like a good choice for me. I do like my Mark IV a lot, but the idea of having all of those great tonal options in one small light weight package is sounding too good to pass up. Before the Mark IV, I had a Triaxis and 2:90 rack setup through two 2x12 recto cabs. That rig was a monster, but I got so tired of lugging that heavy beast around. I have a question about the atomic CLRs though. I keep seeing people talking about Neo versions of them, but there is no mention of that option on the Atomic website. Is there a price difference with the neos? If I sell my cabs, I could maybe swing one CLR and roll mono. Been going mono with my current rig for years now anyway. Any thoughts on the active vs passive versions. I kinda like the cab version better than the wedge as it looks a bit more traditional, but I'm open to both. How would an active CLR compare to a Matrix pushing a passive CLR?
 
As another new user, I would say be ready to give yourself MUCH more time than the 15 day trial period. I understand why it's 15 days and not longer, but until you really start to explore this thing, you're missing out on what all it can really do. I've had mine for less than a year, and I'm still finding new ways to skin a cat.

That said, you can snatch an amp model of your choice, never touch the advanced editing parameters, and nail great tones one after another. But it'll still take you every minute of those 15 days just to taste everything in the box... a selling point IMO.

I bought used, unsure of whether or not I would keep it, figuring that I could at least get my purchase price back out of it (they retain their value very well) minus some shipping & PP fees. You might consider doing the same if you are hesitant.
 
Here are a bunch of clips I've made. i've been on a personal mission since the beginning to show the Axe Fx as much more then a heavy metal amp. For even MORE clips going way back to FW 6.0, go to my axefx website in my signature. Yes, the FRFR vs real amp in room takes getting used to. Its a transition. but finding out how you sound to the audience will convert you in seconds.

 
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there is a learning curve, and I'm sure we all continue learning with every update.
Totally worth it, IMO

It amazes me that all the new amps that come out seem to be in the $3500 and up range. Just for 1 amp.
We have it all for much less.

I couldn't ask for more.
 
I think my experience follows most other folks here. The bottom line is that what I gave up... that "amp in the room" feel... I more than made up with ease of use the vast number of new killer tones that I could come up with. I can either go FRFR into my QSC K12 or through my Matrix GT1000FX into a Mesa 4X12. Personally, I've grown to prefer the FRFR... the sound coming out of it is just too good, even if I don't quite get that punch-in-the-gut feel of a "regular" head/cab combo. What I hear is what the audience hears.

I can quite literally carry my entire rig in two hands now.

Recording is stupid simple via USB.

Overall I'm very happy with my Axe. I have a 1984 Marshall JCM800 that is just... insane... and I only very rarely fire it up anymore. I like the Axe and the tones it produces that much.
 
IMO, If you want amp-in-room, keep what you have.

I left amp-in-room behind on day one to get full Fractal benefits (delivering better tone to audience, having killer tone/feel at any volume, complete consistent predictable sound gig-to-gig, complete control, versatility, and less crap to carry) and it's a shit-ton more fun than being strapped to a single amp/cab platform.
 
Tyler those clips sound amazing! The ones on your website are good too. I can definitely hear the improvement in the cabinet modeling in the more recent firmware versions. The early ones sound more stuffy and flat. The more recent ones have that lively sparkle to the top end. They sound really really good. It's really great to hear the Axe doing something other than detuned death metal (nothing against it - just not my cup of tea).
 
base851 said:
I can quite literally carry my entire rig in two hands now.
Click to expand...

+10000! A cranked up stack is hard to beat until you have to carry it up and down a flight of stairs over and over again. Every time I change my rig it keeps getting smaller and smaller. My back and my ears continue to thank me.
 
mr_fender said:
Tyler those clips sound amazing! The ones on your website are good too. I can definitely hear the improvement in the cabinet modeling in the more recent firmware versions. The early ones sound more stuffy and flat. The more recent ones have that lively sparkle to the top end. They sound really really good. It's really great to hear the Axe doing something other than detuned death metal (nothing against it - just not my cup of tea).
Click to expand...

You'll find that it's not just firmware updates that improve people's tone, it's also better command of the unit/tweaking etc and better choice of cabs. There's no reason that with enough time and the right cab impulses, you can sound just as good.
 
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