I'm concerned that updates are getting a bit out of control

I personally like the frequent updates.

There have been a few in a short space of time. However, every one has improved things IMO. I don't gig or rely on presets, so I don't experience any frustration at having to dial things in again.

I think some people have been very harsh to the OP. It's embarrassing to read some of the posts on here at times. It seems like anyone who posts anything that could be perceived as negative and/or challenging is jumped on for daring to have a different opinion.
 
While I absolutely recognise and welcome Cliff's and the FAS team's enthusiasm and support of the Axe FX, I am concerned that there is a lack of disipline and control with regards to recent FW Beta updates.

We have a FW20 beta that is now overlapped with a Quantum 1 beta. Does this suggest that random developments are being thrown out for testing by the public without adherence to a product development plan?

Or are these frantic developments a knee jerk reaction to the imminent lower cost product releases by other manufacturers (Helix, Amplifire, Yamaha THR100), which are looking likely to be great sounding products?

Every company needs creative and spur of the moment product developments but releasing these as a stream of consciousness to the public may end up being self defeating and appear amateurish, especially without taking the time to write release notes.

Just a concern of mine, from someone who owns and loves the Axe FX.

Some people just don't understand 'this' philosophy of life! I call it 'Get Into It'! Cliff is a 'Get Into It' person! There is no end to 'Get Into It' No matter what 'Get Into It' people do, their getting into it with a maximum will to take it as far as possible until they are doing that with something else! It's obvious to me that it takes one to understand one, further more; 'Get Into It' is truly at the heart of what moves our world forward and all do benefit with no need to understand it!
 
Yes, there's no need to shell the OP. Opinions matter here.

As for mine. First 'Lack of discipline and control'. Well, we cannot know Fractals level of internal process rigor, so not sure commenting on it is necessary. All we have to go on is past performance, and IMO just the Beta versions have FAR exceeded the majority of software products rolled out as 'Ready to use!'

This is ALL about personal choice. Fractal gives us the OPPORTUNITY to update (something that very few companies in general do). There should not be an implied 'you HAVE to update' there at all (unless it's a critical bug fix...)

As others I'm sure have said, it's all about how YOU want to manage it. If I were a gigging musician, I would not update each time I see a beta out there; let the bodies sort themselves out and read up on other's (good AND bad) experiences. I am not, so I jump on these things right away. This does not have to be your choice. Like I said, if the pace seems a bit much, then what is the harm in waiting 3 days when one rolls out.

It's a good time to be us.

R
 
It's a good thing this forum is overloaded with "Good Guy" Trolls to quickly put you in your place. :encouragement:
 
Some people just don't understand 'this' philosophy of life! I call it 'Get Into It'! Cliff is a 'Get Into It' person! There is no end to 'Get Into It' No matter what 'Get Into It' people do, their getting into it with a maximum will to take it as far as possible until they are doing that with something else! It's obvious to me that it takes one to understand one, further more; 'Get Into It' is truly at the heart of what moves our world forward and all do benefit with no need to understand it!

Yes. It is what separates people like Cliff from the vast majority of the rest of us. He's got an incredible amount of knowledge, creativity, drive, commitment, etc. He does this because this is what he does. It's up to you, the end user, to go along for the ride or not.
 
The only thing I worry about, in relation to firmware frequency is Cliff working himself to death. I know he enjoys his work, but man, I sometimes wonder if he ever takes more than 10 minutes to relax, or sleep. Has Cliff slept since the Axe-Standard released?


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While I absolutely recognise and welcome Cliff's and the FAS team's enthusiasm and support of the Axe FX, I am concerned that there is a lack of disipline and control with regards to recent FW Beta updates.

We have a FW20 beta that is now overlapped with a Quantum 1 beta. Does this suggest that random developments are being thrown out for testing by the public without adherence to a product development plan?

Or are these frantic developments a knee jerk reaction to the imminent lower cost product releases by other manufacturers (Helix, Amplifire, Yamaha THR100), which are looking likely to be great sounding products?

Every company needs creative and spur of the moment product developments but releasing these as a stream of consciousness to the public may end up being self defeating and appear amateurish, especially without taking the time to write release notes.

Just a concern of mine, from someone who owns and loves the Axe FX.

I wouldn't be concerned. This is a very exciting time for the AxeFx and Cliff loves his work. By the time it gets to public beta, I believe it's already passed through the private beta testers.

These beta's are surprisingly stable compared to other products (ahem Madden 16) which are Gold and yet full of bugs.

If you don't care for the update, just wait.

Lastly, while this is a forum and you are free to say what you like - and your comments certainly were not inflammatory, I'd rather you keep thoughts like this to yourself. Honestly, it's my opinion that I've got a cutting edge device AND it's getting better every month. I don't know where I can buy anything else which improves with age (besides wine, but I can't drink it AND save it). I can use my Axe and see it get even better in a few months.

The alternative would be for Cliff to charge for firmware upgrades. Companies do it all the time.

So while I respect your opinion, I'd rather you didn't kill the golden goose for the rest of us.

Thanks.
 
I personally don't update to any Beta firmwares, just my preference. Where I do understand the frustration of an ever evolving product like the Axe Fx, what I do is just wait and read as much as I can into what the new update brings to the table before updating. I'm not a big tweaker, tbh 95% of all my tones are stock presets that get a minor tweak here and there. It's nice to have options, and while too many options can be overwhelming, at the end of the day you're still going to have a great tone..I think that's what matters the most here.
 
Brother, NEVER, EVER write a critical Post about updates in this Forum!!! They will kill you (I know...) Here are all Update Junkies and they need there daily dosis. Other companies test updates and bring them out if they run stable, not so FAS... Bring it out, look what happens, if its good ok, if not try again... Every Update you can spend endless Time to tweak your presets, thats only FAS Sh...

True, there are "some" who may be a bit fanatical, and they may "appear" to be defensive of the Fractal way. I'm not one of those, FWIW - I try to keep an open mind, and I hope others will, as well, and that this will be an open exchange of experiences and opinions.

I happen to disagree with your final statement, but you're welcome to say what you will. If you choose to use the updates, you sign on to accept the tweaking that may follow. If you like your presets the way the are, already, why even bother to update?!?!? I just don't understand this concept - if we never accept change, how can we expect anything ever to be any better.

I have been very frustrated, on occasion, when I updated shortly before a gig, and then had to suffer the consequences - publicly - when my preset were scattered hot and cold. But I knew going in that this may happen, and I only blamed myself for not waiting until a more opportune time to test out first. Unfortunately, for many of us who gig regularly, there may not be too many open windows to check out updates with any level of confidence, except at the gig. So .... I may have a couple of glitches, and a couple squirmy moments, but for the most part, at least EVERYTHING always works. I was never totally left hanging - I just had to make a few quick adjustments, and get on with it, and hope no one noticed.

The absolute, best, most fail-safe, option if you are one who is not comfortable tweaking your presets, is to get them like you like them, and leave them alone. Don't try the betas, don't update to the latest firmware, and don't complain about having to tweak - you're good to go. Don't update, unless there is an updated feature that is compelling for you to risk having to tweak your presets. There's really no reason to update, except to try the latest things - and with that comes a bit of tweaking, if you're going to then try to get things back to where they were - and if that's the case, why update anyway?!!!?

As for folks jumping in a pig-pile on dissenters, I'm not one of those folks. Sorry about that, for anyone who's been there. I have been the recipient myself, of some pretty brusque responses, when asking for innocent advice, that others thought had already been posted sometime in the past. It left a few bruises, and honestly, some of the searches that were suggested by some of the more experienced members were not even in my AxeFX vocabulary, yet. I was not even knowledgeable enough to know WHAT to search for (getting a bit off-topic here, but it needed to be said).

The forum SHOULD be an open place to discuss, and what works for one, may not work for another - that is no cause to stand your ground like you're the only big bad boy on campus. Not every smart ass remark needs a come-back - take the high road, folks, and many of the things that "offend" you will be gone tomorrow. If you continue to reply to a discussion just to make your point, all you're doing is watering the weeds - and they'll be back tomorrow.

I've been a little long-winded, and Hellraiser, the entire discussion is not directed at you. It's more of an open commentary, that I hope some will consider before posting. I took umbrage at your insinuation that Fractal just throws updates out half-assed, for us to figure out, and if it works, good, if not, they'll throw out another one. If that's how you view it, well so be it; I don't happen to feel that way, and firmly believe the folks at Fractal are trying their hardest to offer us the best that can be had, with current technology, and that they are also laying the table to provide a better banquet in the future. I don't expect there's any intent, WHATSOEVER, to toss out half-assed sh.., and see what happens. Not trying to be a "fan-boi" - I just calls it as I sees it. Not trying to change your mind; you'll have to make up your own.

Play on, my friend :encouragement:.
 
The AxeFx has been one of the best value for money pieces of musical equipment i have ever bought, followed shortly by a 2$ string winder i bought 15 years ago

Fractal cant do anything wrong from my perspective, and i will praise and be loyal to the brand until something catastrophic changes

I will defend this company and their products to the death, This makes a fanboy.

qlafj.jpg
 
I somewhat agree with the OP looking at a different angle. However, I think Cliff and the fractal team had carried away with true passion and really enjoying what they are doing. Sometimes they can't help themselves, but sharing that passion with us. I think the fractal team has so much trust in this community that allowing them to do business the way they are doing. You may not agree with me, but this is one of a more professional forum comparing to others. So many users on here blow my mind with their knowledge for the product. If I was designing a product and have so much supports like on this forum, I'll be doing the same. There are other business benefit for doing this as well, but its another topic in itself.

I don't really know how fractal makes money, but as a microprocessor circuit board designer myself, I can tell you that we are getting a crazy deal for the axe. The street value for the 2 processors in the axe alone is almost $400. I know that they can get it for a lot lower, but don't forget the other 300 components on this board. The last time I put $400 worth of processor on a board, it was sold for $10,000 a piece.
With that being said, I totally believe these guys doing what they do with a true passion. You have to agree with me that it resonates throughout the users on this forum.
Others on here are saying that if you don't like it, don't update..... Really????? Tell me a person that could resist the temptation... You can probably count with your fingers out of thousands of us.... LOL...! Kidding aside, I do understand where you are coming from, but keep in mind that this community is just different than the rest.

When you do things with a true passion, you will always get carried away. That goes for all of us. Have you ever look back at a video of your band played on stage? When you really enjoyed those great melodies and tunes, do you ever realize what faces you make? I think the fractal team is having the same feeling with their product right now. I think it is a good thing.....

Sorry for the long write up....
 
I am loving the constant updated and I believe that the price is well worth it. Axe FX II and any fractal audio product worth every penny. Fractal user for life here!
 
Was not planning on getting involved in this discussion but couldn't resist. Lately these 'challenging questions' and other critical questions or remarks about things that you would like to see improved in the Axe fx are getting very hostile reactions on this forums. Although sometimes fun to read it also worries me that one can only say positive things about a product on a forum. That is if you don't want to get these hostile reactions. Can't we all have a good discussion without jumping at each other's throat? On a forum there should also be room for these challenging questions. Don't take it too personal!

I think that is untrue. Say what you want. I have never jumped on someone for saying something "FACTUAL" about the axe. If there's an issue there is an issue./

It's the stupid crap like the Original Post. Those are NOT questions. Come on....I am beginning to wonder if some here cannot read, seriously. How those statements are not found to be offensive is beyond the scope of my mind.. One basically says Cliff is "using us".

The scared knee jerks, afraid of helix, and the other crap I quoted too much already. sorry, this offends me especially coming from someone who has been here a "very short" time" but yet has the insight and wisdom about how Cliff is sweating helix, making bad decisions, going to bury FAS......Give me a F**K88 break. Guess what, the world is not all wonderful and beautiful.

Really sad, I get mad at stuff like this, not someone saying there axe is fizzy or can't get a good sound, et, etc. We hear that all the time.

Ya know, I can name a bunch of you that I am sorry to say would never had made it in the real bad world---if you know what I mean-signature......

Man this type of thread just burns me because I do not understand the defending. All I see are derogatory statements about fractal. PERIOD. I don't care how the sentence is built grammatically.

SO, I am going to take a hiatus, probably means I'll miss the ax8, but some of you ACLU members are killing me.

Shame I am leaving after someone posts what the OP did.... Now there's logic for ya..............B**lSH88 logic.

Enjoy being the cool head and nice guy even when it's NOT warranted at all
\FRank
 
I somewhat agree with the OP looking at a different angle. However, I think Cliff and the fractal team had carried away with true passion and really enjoying what they are doing. Sometimes they can't help themselves, but sharing that passion with us. I think the fractal team has so much trust in this community that allowing them to do business the way they are doing. You may not agree with me, but this is one of a more professional forum comparing to others. So many users on here blow my mind with their knowledge for the product. If I was designing a product and have so much supports like on this forum, I'll be doing the same. There are other business benefit for doing this as well, but its another topic in itself.

I don't really know how fractal makes money, but as a microprocessor circuit board designer myself, I can tell you that we are getting a crazy deal for the axe. The street value for the 2 processors in the axe alone is almost $400. I know that they can get it for a lot lower, but don't forget the other 300 components on this board. The last time I put $400 worth of processor on a board, it was sold for $10,000 a piece.
With that being said, I totally believe these guys doing what they do with a true passion. You have to agree with me that it resonates throughout the users on this forum.
Others on here are saying that if you don't like it, don't update..... Really????? Tell me a person that could resist the temptation... You can probably count with your fingers out of thousands of us.... LOL...! Kidding aside, I do understand where you are coming from, but keep in mind that this community is just different than the rest.

When you do things with a true passion, you will always get carried away. That goes for all of us. Have you ever look back at a video of your band played on stage? When you really enjoyed those great melodies and tunes, do you ever realize what faces you make? I think the fractal team is having the same feeling with their product right now. I think it is a good thing.....

Sorry for the long write up....

Don't be sorry...........It's a nice post. And it's been said before, if the updates really bother someone and the fact that the Rev history was left out of one (which was a crime accord to the op) then that person has purchased the wrong product.

Because Fractal and Cliff and the passion z064ddle alluded to is NOT going to stop anytime soon.. I think they are just getting started.
So while I am getting real tired of this BS, I will take the ride with Fractal as far as it goes. The forum...I'll be re thinking that.
 
Lately these 'challenging questions' and other critical questions or remarks about things that you would like to see improved in the Axe fx are getting very hostile reactions on this forums.

I think there's a difference between true "challenging" and "critical" questions and posts like this. I would not call a post like this constructive criticism at all.

To come out and basically say Fractal look "amateurish" or "aren't adhering to a Product Development Plan" simply because they launch public betas is borderline ludicrous.
 
I have also been here a long time and watched the development of FAS. I cant see any issues at all with their approach, its up to you if you want to stay at a given version to keep patches stable etc.
Forums amaze me, its up to FAS how they run their Company. What's it got to do with anyone else apart from the shareholders? If they screw it up they are the one's that'll suffer some loss. I can't see how their approach is anything but beneficial to customers. As mentioned by many old timers here, they are not a run of the mill company never have been, quite unusual for sure but I take my hat off to them for how fast they have developed the AX-FX. Cliff is not average! His output is prodigious!
My 2 pennies worth...
 
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