Ignore pedal/CC state on preset recall

[Bakerman]

The current Axe operation is to have the pedal's position and CC states immediately affect parameters they're attached to when you switch to a new preset. This wish is for having the preset-stored values loading, and changing only if you move/switch something afterward. It's a global option on some units, like the G-Major:

Mod
If set to “Mod” the G•Major will at any preset
change check the position of the connected
external Controller and respond to this position
thereby ignoring the Modifier value for the
relevant parameter.
Preset
If set to “Preset” the G•Major will ignore the
position of the connected External controller
and load the Modifier value stored with the
preset.

Example of benefit: I have one expression pedal hooked up, and it varies the delay level in a lead preset from very quiet to somewhat loud. I'd like to have the level somewhere in the middle whenever I recall that preset, instead of dependent upon whether I did a volume swell or auto-disengaged a wah or something else in an earlier preset.

 

[scarr]

I don't think there are any "preset stored" values for those parameters currently, but I get your point. I agree that would be more useful and in-line with normal/expected behaviour.

 

[claudel]

How difficult would it be to have the preset default to whatever the knob setting is until the controller is moved?

That would allow the user to choose the setting when a preset is recalled.

 

[scarr]

As this thread pointed out, there are a number of reasons why "ignoring" the pedal might not be practical with the AFx's control implementation. All the control parameters are globalized, so the settings aren't preset based. The settings are taken from CC's. Even if it saved a value, the Controller would read the CC table in the next pass and the Modifier would update accordingly.

I don't know how much overhead it would add to have it check a flag to see if it was currently ignoring CC's, then to check the value against a saved value. I know it's a couple quick "if" statements, but in the control code that keeps running, that could add up.

 

[claudel]

As this thread pointed out, there are a number of reasons why "ignoring" the pedal might not be practical with the AFx's control implementation. All the control parameters are globalized, so the settings aren't preset based. The settings are taken from CC's. Even if it saved a value, the Controller would read the CC table in the next pass and the Modifier would update accordingly.

I don't know how much overhead it would add to have it check a flag to see if it was currently ignoring CC's, then to check the value against a saved value. I know it's a couple quick "if" statements, but in the control code that keeps running, that could add up.

I was thinking of a global "ignore CC until it's moved" either by switch or as default behavior with the CC
overriding whatever the knob setting in a patch is when it is first used rather than when the patch is selected.

I'm sure it would require some recoding, but I can't see how it would add much overhead or code bloat.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

I was thinking of a global "ignore CC until it's moved"

Because controllers are global in the Axe-Fx, there is no provision for preset-specific initial values. To change this would require additional code and additional memory (to store the per-patch values). More importantly, no revision is required, only looking in the correct place for the answer.

This is properly dealt with in the programming of your MIDI controller. All that's needed is to have your controller send the desired CC and value to initialize the control setting when you select the preset. Then, when you go to this preset, your controller will transmit the required initial value. Once you move the pedal, its position will control the parameter from that point onward. All you have to do to reinitialize it is to reselect the preset.

 

[claudel]

I'm expressing myself poorly, I think.

Perhaps I'm using incorrect nomenclature.

I'm not suggesting doing anything to the actual controller part of the code.

For example, in the delay block there is a parameter called "Ingain%" that accepts values from 0% to 100%.

If no controllers are configured, one can set that to a specific value say, 33%.

It's possible to attach a modifier to that parameter which then can be configured to use a specific controller with a range of possible values.

Apparently, when a preset is selected, the state of the controller ( if one is configured) is checked, and the parameter it is assigned to is adjusted accordingly.

What I'm suggesting is that when a preset is selected, then it uses whatever value is set as if there were no modifier(s) attached until the controller sends a change.

For my example, the "Ingain%" would be set to 33% on selection until the modifier is triggeed.

Alternatively, a "default" or "initial" value selection in the modifier would do the same thing.

I'm sure it would be possible to program this into a reasonably intelligent external controller, but I don't have one of those, only a pair of Hex pedals.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

For example, in the delay block there is a parameter called "Ingain%" that accepts values from 0% to 100%. If no controllers are configured, one can set that to a specific value say, 33%.

Yes.

Apparently, when a preset is selected, the state of the controller ( if one is configured) is checked, and the parameter it is assigned to is adjusted accordingly.

Yes, that's my understanding as well.

What I'm suggesting is that when a preset is selected, then it uses whatever value is set as if there were no modifier(s) attached until the controller sends a change.

Which would have to be optional, since many of us (most of us perhaps) would not accept this as the default mode of operation. Therefore, there must be additional memory allocated for a Boolean value in addition to the added code. Might be doable, but why? It's already doable now, with no firmware changes in the Axe-Fx.

Alternatively, a "default" or "initial" value selection in the modifier would do the same thing.

Given that modifiers are local and are called only after global initialization, odds are that the modifier initializes by calling the controller, which passes the parameter back to the modifier. In that case, implementing what you want would require additional code and (possibly) additional memory to store the initial value.

I'm sure it would be possible to program this into a reasonably intelligent external controller,

I can do that trivially with the cheapest MID foot controller there is (Behringer FCB1010).

but I don't have one of those, only a pair of Hex pedals

Making fullest use of the Axe-Fx's controllability requires some minimum capability in the controller you use. It would appear that the $149 that the FCB1010 costs is a pretty modest investment to make, and that will get you what you want and a lot more.

 

[claudel]

Which would have to be optional, since many of us (most of us perhaps) would not accept this as the default mode of operation. Therefore, there must be additional memory allocated for a Boolean value in addition to the added code. Might be doable, but why? It's already doable now, with no firmware changes in the Axe-Fx.

Not without purchasing another device which some folks, like me, would prefer to spend elsewhere or save for the upcoming FAS controller.

I don' t understand why this would be so bad.

One selects whatever value one likes as the default value for a parameter when the preset is selected.

When the controller is used then the value changes as opposed to the value being set to whatever value is
indicated by the random setting of the controller from a previous preset on selection of a new one.

If an external device sends a controller setting after a preset change, then that value is used, same as now.

 

[Rome]

-

 

[Bakerman]

Which would have to be optional, since many of us (most of us perhaps) would not accept this as the default mode of operation

That's why I put "option" in the poll question. It's an option on other units (G-Force, G-major) that I don't find too different from the Axe in terms of global CC's and preset-specific modifiers, and I was hoping it may be seen as a useful addition here. (The current poll totals seem to indicate it is, to some extent.)

In that case, implementing what you want would require additional code and (possibly) additional memory to store the initial value.

Wouldn't that make it just like many other features/parameters that have been added since the first Axe firmware? I don't see why a wish for this feature is met with any more opposition than others.

Making fullest use of the Axe-Fx's controllability requires some minimum capability in the controller you use.

I'm hoping for a feature that works for the pedal jacks on the Axe itself as well as any built in or attached to the controller, and the ability to edit and save presets on the Axe as easily as I can now but with the bonus of having exact settings upon recalling a preset. I'm not too thrilled about buying another footcontroller and having to set and adjust multiple outgoing CCs whenever I want to adjust the sound a preset has upon recall. I'd rather see the Axe itself become more capable and give people more options regardless of the footcontroller they own.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

Wouldn't that make it just like many other features/parameters that have been added since the first Axe firmware?

Given that its functionality is readily available now, I would answer that with a "No."

 

[Bakerman]

By purchasing a controller that can send specific CC values on preset change, yes, and still not on the Axe's pedal jacks. The wish is for what I'd consider the ultimate implementation of this, not one that allows it only on non-Axe jacks and requires editing of CC values on the pedalboard for preset sound tweaks.

 

[scarr]

In that case, implementing what you want would require additional code and (possibly) additional memory to store the initial value.

Wouldn't that make it just like many other features/parameters that have been added since the first Axe firmware? I don't see why a wish for this feature is met with any more opposition than others.

Yes, but people don't necessarily feel it's worth bloating the AFx with it when most foot controllers will do it.

The wish for this feature is meeting more opposition than others because less people like it, or at least don't see it as a priority. That's how this process works. If you check the master list, some ideas have been disliked far more.

 

[Bakerman]

True, and I don't mean to seem disappointed that there's not total agreement on it being needed. I might be assuming it would be less bloating than it really would.

 

[Xrocker]

This would be my most needed feature to add to the Ultra or future Fractal foot controller.

I have 3 expression pedals running on Volume, Wah, and one for special effects depth. I play a song and change all 3 pedals then jump to a new patch and the preset is totally wrong. I don't have time and can't accurately guess the settings that all 3 pedals should be at before I change to my next preset. I need my presets to come up exactly the same every time. That's why they are called presets.

I sure hope Cliff sees this and incorporates it into the Fractal foot controller. If the GC Pro has this capability I'm sure Cliff could work it into the AXE.

 

[Bantam Menace]

This is properly dealt with in the programming of your MIDI controller. All that's needed is to have your controller send the desired CC and value to initialize the control setting when you select the preset. Then, when you go to this preset, your controller will transmit the required initial value. Once you move the pedal, its position will control the parameter from that point onward. All you have to do to reinitialize it is to reselect the preset.

This can be done...but it's soooo much easier to do from the processor rather than a controller in my experience with a GForce.

 

[gdgross]

I'd like to see this feature, too!

 

[claudel]

This is properly dealt with in the programming of your MIDI controller. All that's needed is to have your controller send the desired CC and value to initialize the control setting when you select the preset. Then, when you go to this preset, your controller will transmit the required initial value. Once you move the pedal, its position will control the parameter from that point onward. All you have to do to reinitialize it is to reselect the preset.

This can be done...but it's soooo much easier to do from the processor rather than a controller in my experience with a GForce.

I didn't write that... :roll: I think it was Jay...

I would like to see the Axe have the option to ignore pedal state on patch change until it is moved, though.

 

[Bantam Menace]

Still keeping me from using the AxeFx live...bummer. I must be missing something?