I find the Plexi models all quite dark. Explanation inside. Any help?

I don’t have a lack of ‘sizzle’ in the high end of the numerous different Marshall presets I’ve made. I mainly use York Audio IR’s (greenbacks or V-30’s) depending on the amp used. Marshall’s tend to sound best with the bass below 5, the mids around 7-8, treble around 6-7, and add presence to taste. Some are brighter (or darker) than others.
Your cabinet (or IR), impedance curve, monitor system (for playback), global eq settings (if any) make a huge difference.
I don’t really hear a lack of high end sizzle that Marshall’s have, with that midrange they’re known for in your clip, compared to some of the demos. Some of the demos have less high end than others, as does your clip.
 
to me plexi is(especially with humbuckers): dime everything beside bass, do the rest with the guitar volume and tone knobs. That bass on plexi, I see people turning it up, probably they filter alot after the amp again but to me the bass on plexi is nothing but mud, even with single coils.

And when you dime that treble, presence, you should get more than enough sizzle that you would need to dial some out with the tone knob, when the volume is rolled down to get EOB or cleans.
 
Random Hero said:
I bumped another thread but think this warrants its own.

So for the longest time I’ve been looking for the ideal “Plexi” tone from a modeller. I guess we all know the sound I’m referencing but I’ve posted examples of the exact type of thing I’m talking about at the bottom of this.

To preface this, and I’m saying this for context rather than any other reason, I play professionally and know my gear etc. I don’t think the issue is me, though I am more than happy to be corrected if there’s something I’m missing..! This definitely isn’t a dig as I love Fractal gear and I’m about to use my FM9 on a UK tour.

On to the point - I find the Plexis in the current firmware quite dark and congested sounding and I don’t get why.
Earlier this week I started a little voyage into this after hearing the demo of the Metropoulos MetroPlex II I posted below. To me there is a lot of all of those descriptive words we use for Plexis embodied in that clip. It’s bright, has “kerrang” and “clank” and has those snarly upper mids and so on. For whatever reason, the models in the Axe don’t quite do that to me?
So I made some comparison clips using two amps in the Fractal - 1959SLP and the 100W High - and two “amps” in the Quad Cortex - a DI capture of the Plexi channel of a Friedman Smallbox and the Neural Plexi 100 Bright amp model. Listen for yourselves but for whatever reason, I can’t get the Fractal models to sound as bright or present or sizzly or whatever, not without extra EQ whether by way of a block or the output EQ or whatever.

Don’t get me wrong, there’s a depth and richness to the Fractal tones that I can’t quite get from the other unit so this isn’t a dig at all but I’m confused why I can’t get these tones without serious extra EQing? The Neurals sound closer to me in this context, EQ wise, and that surprised me.

- All of the clips above were using the same IR so it can’t be that, though I’m aware some IRs are much brighter but considering those tones exist using that IR, it’s not the IR. I also feel like once you start using overly bright IRs, something else is lost. Depth, weight, thickness and fatness.

- I’ve switched speaker impedance curves and whilst I do think it makes a difference, it’s subtle at best. It’s not night and day.

- I set the EQs on all three models (can’t control the capture EQ) to exactly the same.

I’ve also found that even when I dime them, I’m not getting as much brightness or sizzle as I’d expect, certainly not close to George Metropoulos in that clip..!

What say we? What’s the deal?

My recordings;
Same DI guitar track. Order is Fractal 100W High, Friedman Capture, Fractal 1959SLP, Neural Plexi model.



Examples;





Click to expand...

I was gonna say if your finding the amp to be dark crank up the treble a bit. Somebody already said that though.
 
Random Hero said:
I bumped another thread but think this warrants its own.

So for the longest time I’ve been looking for the ideal “Plexi” tone from a modeller. I guess we all know the sound I’m referencing but I’ve posted examples of the exact type of thing I’m talking about at the bottom of this.

To preface this, and I’m saying this for context rather than any other reason, I play professionally and know my gear etc. I don’t think the issue is me, though I am more than happy to be corrected if there’s something I’m missing..! This definitely isn’t a dig as I love Fractal gear and I’m about to use my FM9 on a UK tour.

On to the point - I find the Plexis in the current firmware quite dark and congested sounding and I don’t get why.
Earlier this week I started a little voyage into this after hearing the demo of the Metropoulos MetroPlex II I posted below. To me there is a lot of all of those descriptive words we use for Plexis embodied in that clip. It’s bright, has “kerrang” and “clank” and has those snarly upper mids and so on. For whatever reason, the models in the Axe don’t quite do that to me?
So I made some comparison clips using two amps in the Fractal - 1959SLP and the 100W High - and two “amps” in the Quad Cortex - a DI capture of the Plexi channel of a Friedman Smallbox and the Neural Plexi 100 Bright amp model. Listen for yourselves but for whatever reason, I can’t get the Fractal models to sound as bright or present or sizzly or whatever, not without extra EQ whether by way of a block or the output EQ or whatever.

Don’t get me wrong, there’s a depth and richness to the Fractal tones that I can’t quite get from the other unit so this isn’t a dig at all but I’m confused why I can’t get these tones without serious extra EQing? The Neurals sound closer to me in this context, EQ wise, and that surprised me.

- All of the clips above were using the same IR so it can’t be that, though I’m aware some IRs are much brighter but considering those tones exist using that IR, it’s not the IR. I also feel like once you start using overly bright IRs, something else is lost. Depth, weight, thickness and fatness.

- I’ve switched speaker impedance curves and whilst I do think it makes a difference, it’s subtle at best. It’s not night and day.

- I set the EQs on all three models (can’t control the capture EQ) to exactly the same.

I’ve also found that even when I dime them, I’m not getting as much brightness or sizzle as I’d expect, certainly not close to George Metropoulos in that clip..!

What say we? What’s the deal?

My recordings;
Same DI guitar track. Order is Fractal 100W High, Friedman Capture, Fractal 1959SLP, Neural Plexi model.



Examples;





Click to expand...

Man... as a gear addict, tweaking addict, and a bit of a gear hoarder myself, I dare say you are going down a rabbit hole that will only end with you buying the actual plexi amp you want. I am a happy Axe FX III and FM9 user, but I also many amps, including several 60's and 70's fenders. I have decided instead of going down the rabbit hole of trying to match one to the other, I just buy it all haha. And then I end up taking my FM9 on all my gigs and tours anyway and no one gives a sh*t how I sound lol. I'm sure I am no help lol.
 
Random Hero said:
@FractalAudio ’s explanation yesterday helped a lot. Ended up spending quite a while today exploring the Factory IRs rather than the same old go-tos.

Made this with the Plexi 100W High today, basically everything dimed. Getting much closer.

Click to expand...

Sounds tidy, Irs make a big difference, try using the boost function in the preamp section of the amp block,. I find the super od helps tighten it up and you roll back some of the gain too. Depending on pickups of coarse.
 
Another thing is NMV amps don't have very prominent impedance curve tonal imprint when pushed because the power amp distorts, this results in a flatter more mid-forward tone, the real amp does that too.
If you want to hear the impedance curve 'tone' change the MV position to Post-PI and lower it to about 3, compensate with output volume.

I also find I need to lower the bias setting to bring out more crossover distortion to match the real amp.
Overall the Plexi amps in the Fractal are accurate, except the Plexi 100W (1969) with its weird all-Log tonestack anomaly, IMO.
 
James Freeman said:
Another thing is NMV amps don't have very prominent impedance curve tonal imprint when pushed because the power amp distorts, this results in a flatter more mid-forward tone, the real amp does that too.
If you want to hear the impedance curve 'tone' change the MV position to Post-PI and lower it to about 3, compensate with output volume.

I also find I need to lower the bias setting to bring out more crossover distortion to match the real amp.
Overall the Plexi amps in the Fractal are accurate, except the Plexi 100W (1969) with its weird all-Log tonestack anomaly, IMO.
Click to expand...
Explain that further about the 1969 model?
 
James Freeman said:
Another thing is NMV amps don't have very prominent impedance curve tonal imprint when pushed because the power amp distorts, this results in a flatter more mid-forward tone, the real amp does that too.
If you want to hear the impedance curve 'tone' change the MV position to Post-PI and lower it to about 3, compensate with output volume.

I also find I need to lower the bias setting to bring out more crossover distortion to match the real amp.
Overall the Plexi amps in the Fractal are accurate, except the Plexi 100W (1969) with its weird all-Log tonestack anomaly, IMO.
Click to expand...
It was interesting to find that out about the Plexi 100w. I always found it a little harder to dial in than the others and I tend to have to use slightly different settings, but that explains it. I did a little research after learning about that and found some references to it being common to find on early plexis, even though the schematics show linear.

I even found this quote from George Metropoulos on his forum:

"On mid and treble:

I have measured lots of old Marshall pots and they are almost always audio taper or closer to audio taper than linear."
 
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