How to maintain equal volume levels with preset changing?

A

autumn09

Member
HI all :

Just have question: how do you maintain 'equal volume' levels with preset changing??

Is there a simple way to acheive this or just try and judge the volume between each preset mannually?

Cheers..
 
In my experience, the relative levels change with volume. So I found that you need to set the levels at gig volume and do it manually. Two things that help are 1) a toggle switch on your pedal board to switch between current and last used presets (see an earlier post from me on how to set this up on a Liquid Foot), 2) a sound pressure meter (you can download the app for a smart phone or ipod touch). This helps but your ears are the better judge.

Set up your clean patches first and then adjust crunch and solo patches from those.
 
This is often discussed, so you can find a lot more information by searching.

Briefly, it's impossible to guarantee identical perceived volume levels for patches with different dynamics and tone balances in every environment. Even variations in your own picking strength will affect the relative volume of patches with different overdrive levels.

But you can get a good approximation, as addedc says, by setting cleanest levels first, then balancing other levels to that. The AxeFX has a volume increment/decrement function you can use at a gig for quick adjustment (maybe in a set break if you don't have it on a footswitch). Or just remember which patches were a little soft or loud and make a small adjustment (1 to 2 dB) before the next gig.
 
+1 on the advice here, but remember: your ears must be the final judge. Meters don't accurately register perceived volume. For example, if you match meter levels on a clean patch and a high-gain patch, the high-gain patch will sound louder, because its average levels are closer to its peak levels.

VOLUME INCR and VOLUME DECR are your friends here. One tap of a footswitch bumps the patch's output volume by 1 dB and saves the change to your patch. It works great for changing patch levels on the fly.
 
I always balance patches while playing a backing track, preferably the one I'm going to use the patch over. If I level with no playback, I end up with imbalance in the mix, even if they sound level by themselves. And it's not just volume. The patch can sound totally different by itself, or over two different backing tracks. I'll often find the patch that I thought would be totally bitchen for a song just flat doesn't work in the mix the way I thought it would.

JWW
 
How do you set up the VOLUME INCR and VOLUME DECR with One tap of a footswitch that bumps the patch's output volume by 1 dB and saves the change to your patch ?
 
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Rain said:
How do you set up the VOLUME INCR and VOLUME DECR with One tap of a footswitch that bumps the patch's output volume by 1 dB and saves the change to your patch ?
Click to expand...
You assign a MIDI CC number to them in the I/O MIDI assignement page (sorry I don't remember the actual page name, but it's where you set CC numbers for tap, tuner, external controllers, block bypasses, etc).

Then of course, you need to set up a footswitch to send that CC number.
 
Copied from another thread on it and also the manual....hopefully farily straight forward for you to follow & avoid too late a night programming!
1. So to recap, here's what you need to do to make this work:

NOTE: I'm using IA switches 1 & 2 for Vol -/+. My AxeFx is configured for MIDI channel 10. I'm assuming default cc values for vol +/-.

1) In "Setup" scroll to "IASw 01" and change it's type to Momentary.
- do the same for IASw 02.
2) In "MIDI", scroll to "IA01" and it it to NONE.
- do the same for IA02
3) Scroll to IA01. Set both c1 and c2 cc's to OFF.
- again, same for IA02
4) Scroll to "S01". Leave the "OF" value empty. Set the ON value to: B9 24 7F.
4) Switch to "S02". Leave the "OF" value empty. Set the ON value to: B9 23 7F.

If you run your AxeFx on midi channel 1, change the B9 above to B0.

Now that the presets have these switches set to send the OFF message by default, there will be nothing sent to the AxeFx and therefore no click.
It is teh awesome!

EDIT: When I was trying this before I tried setting the switch type to toggle and momentary, but it's entirely possible that missed some permutations of configurations that should work and I only hit the ones that didn't work. Feel free to experiment. At least the above is working for me now.

2. 5.2.1 General Use IA Switch Control Change Messages
3. Each IA Switch may be assigned up to 2 Control Change message numbers, each of which sends an ON value when
4. the switch is turned ON, and an OFF value when the switch is turned OFF. TO set the CC# assignments for a switch:
5. 1. Press EDIT footswitch to enter EDIT MODE
6. 2. Press MIDI footswitch to select the MIDI menu
3. Press PAGE7x to get to the IA Switch CC# Settings screen:

4. Tap and/or hold the INCR or DECR footswitches to select an IA Switch
5. Press PARAMETERto move to the Command Select parameter
6. Press INCR or DECR to select between CC Command 1 or CC Command 2.
(Each IA switch allows 2 different CC# messages, each with its own ON/OFF values).
7. Press PARAMETERto move to the CC# Assign parameter
8. Tap and/or hold the INCR or DECR footswitches to select a CC# assignment for the selected
command. Set this value to OFF to disable the selected command.
9. Press PARAMETERto move to the MIDI Channel parameter
10. Tap and/or hold the INCR or DECR footswitches to set a MIDI channel for the selected
command.
11. Press PARAMETER 2x to return to step 5 to set up a 2nd command for the selected IA Switch,
OR Press PARAMETER 3x and select a different IA Switch to edit, OR press EXIT to return to
PERFORMANCE MODE.
The data values for IA switches is “0” for OFF and “127” for ON. The value of any switch state can be freely
1. changed to 0–127 or “OFF,” which causes the switch state to send nothing. For more
 
I utilize a pair of "passive" VU meters plugged into the 1/4" jacks on Output 1. The XLR's run to the console, and Output 2 runs to my IEM's.
It is imperative for me to ensure I am sending a consistent level so the other band members hear me the same in their IEM's.
I also use a volume pedal in EXT 2.
I found my meters in an old Tascam recorder. Just built a small power supply, put it all in a box that sits on the floor by my FCB1010.
 
VU-meters or a dB-meter do not equal the perceived loudness level, so that doesn't work for me at all.
By ear (at rehearsal level) really is the only way for me.
 
So, somebody correct me if I'm wrong (cuz I'm just learning all this still too) but you probably don't want ALL of your presets to be the same volume. Especially if you're switching between clean and crunch tones. The crunchier the tones (especially high gain), the more compressed the tone is and the more volume it's going to need to cut through the mix. I personally start at the crunch tones first and work towards the cleans. The reason being I don't want to hit output clipping when I'm turning up the crunch tones, so I play the loudest thing I have (probably some lead tone) with the loudest pickup and adjust the amp's level control to set it a couple of dbs below Output clipping level. From there, if your crunch tones need to be louder, you know to bring down the volume of your clean tones in comparison and just turn up the overall level of the AFX.

ALWAYS figure out relative levels between presets while either with your band at gig/rehearsal levels or with a backing track. The overdriven/crunch presets SHOULD be louder than the clean ones and that should be definitely noticable when running through presets when it's just you. Almost oddly louder. Those are just band dynamics.

I understand you were asking how to make the presets EQUAL volume, but I just figure I'd throw this out.
 
paultanderberg said:
So, somebody correct me if I'm wrong (cuz I'm just learning all this still too) but you probably don't want ALL of your presets to be the same volume. Especially if you're switching between clean and crunch tone.
Click to expand...
+1.


paultanderberg said:
I personally start at the crunch tones first and work towards the cleans. The reason being I don't want to hit output clipping when I'm turning up the crunch tones, so I play the loudest thing I have (probably some lead tone) with the loudest pickup and adjust the amp's level control to set it a couple of dbs below Output clipping level. From there, if your crunch tones need to be louder, you know to bring down the volume of your clean tones in comparison and just turn up the overall level of the AFX.
Click to expand...
-1. Clipping depends on how high the peaks of your signal are, but perceived volume depends more on the average level of the tone. Clean tones have a much bigger difference between average level and peak level. That means that if you set a clean tone and a compressed/crunch tone right at the point of clipping, the compressed/crunch tone will sound much louder than the clean tone.

In other words, first set the level of your cleanest tone, the set the levels of your other tones against that. Otherwise, you risk clipping.


paultanderberg said:
ALWAYS figure out relative levels between presets while either with your band at gig/rehearsal levels or with a backing track.
Click to expand...
+1.


paultanderberg said:
The overdriven/crunch presets SHOULD be louder than the clean ones...
Click to expand...
+1 / -1. Your lead tones should be a few dB louder than your rhythm tones, but you may find that you need to set your clean tones louder than your crunch tones because of their bigger difference between average and peak levels. Distorted tones actually have an advantage cutting through the mix.
 
stratos said:
I utilize a pair of "passive" VU meters plugged into the 1/4" jacks on Output 1. The XLR's run to the console, and Output 2 runs to my IEM's.
Click to expand...
Stratos, we've recently begun to experiment with IEM's. I'm curious as to what you're running in your IEM's. Is it just the signal from the Axe FX? Or are you pulling in the mix from the rest of the band somehow? Any tips on setting up the whole IEM package would be appreciated.
Thx,
BJD
 
I use a small Tascam 4 channel mixer to drive my IEM's.
Input 1 has the rest of the band coming to me from an AUX on the console.That signal is MONO.
Input 2 receives signal from my Axe OUTPUT 2, STEREO.
I have to be sure the console is NOT sending any of my signal with the rest of the band on input 1 on the Tascam.
If they do, cancellations will occur on my stereo mix.
I send my signal to the console from the Axe L/R XLR OUTPUTS, meter bridge plugged into the 1/4 OUTPUTS to help me achieve a consistent signal so I don't kill everyone else. More like a "speedometer" to keep me out of hot water.
If I don't, the sound guy will just limit me down so he doesn't have to ride my channels all the time.
 
Your right Alexander, the meter bridge is an RMS device that averages signals (A weighted). The VU's give me a "speedometer" of what I am sending the console. If not, the guy will just squash my signal with a brick wall limiter so he doesn't have to ride my inputs. I do not have a cabinet on the platform, so I am totally dependent on the sound desk to put me in the mix for everyone else. The band all use IEM's, the FOH has to maintain levels in the low 90's. The sound guy really appreciates me "policing" my own signal so he can focus on other duties. (texting, surfing,snoozing..etc) =)

Tweaking live is tenuous. Switching between patches and live tweaking is where I really need to strive for consistency. The meter bridge is a life saver for me in that respect.
 
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Big Joe Daddy said:
Stratos, we've recently begun to experiment with IEM's. I'm curious as to what you're running in your IEM's. Is it just the signal from the Axe FX? Or are you pulling in the mix from the rest of the band somehow? Any tips on setting up the whole IEM package would be appreciated.
Thx,
BJD
Click to expand...

In our house, the SPL levels are really sedate for the type of material we play (typically. the low 90's). If I had to use a cab on stage, I would have quit months ago. The IEM's permit me (and the band) to get what we want to hear at levels that inspire us to bring it. Good thing is, one of the subs is right in front of the bassist and myself, and it's kickin sweet.
Guitarist don't need expensive IEM's when you can hear and feel the bassist and drummer's kick. He and I both use cheap IEM's ($30) due to the sub and the bassist is permitted a small Hartke on the platform.
 
stratos said:
I use a small Tascam 4 channel mixer to drive my IEM's.
Input 1 has the rest of the band coming to me from an AUX on the console.That signal is MONO.
Input 2 receives signal from my Axe OUTPUT 2, STEREO.
I have to be sure the console is NOT sending any of my signal with the rest of the band on input 1 on the Tascam.
If they do, cancellations will occur on my stereo mix.
I send my signal to the console from the Axe L/R XLR OUTPUTS, meter bridge plugged into the 1/4 OUTPUTS to help me achieve a consistent signal so I don't kill everyone else. More like a "speedometer" to keep me out of hot water.
If I don't, the sound guy will just limit me down so he doesn't have to ride my channels all the time.
Click to expand...
Statos,
That is a slick arrangement and it seems relatively simple. Couple other questions....
1. Are you also a vocalist and if so are you at the mercy of the sound guy for your vox monitor levels?
2. With the meter bridge arrangement, do you find yourself eyeballing the thing often, or are you at a 'set it and forget' point.

The reason I ask is that we (I) most often run the board from the stage. We're just a bunch of weekend warriors (classic rock) but we're really working hard on getting and keeping a clean FOH mix. Keeping stage volume to a minimum is a desirable objective. We're running a Presonus StudioLive desk, QSC K Series tops and subs, Yamaha DTX series electric drums, and a mix of IEM's and K10 wedges. Presently, I'm running my Axe II through a K12. We find ourselves regressing back to the wedges more often than not and I really want to make the IEM's work to keep the stage volume down and make the FOH as good as it can be. It sounds to me that you guys have that part dialed in. Do you have any suggestions on what we could do and still pull it off mixing ourselves from the stage?

Also, would love to see some pics of your setup. You know what they say...."A picture tells a thousand stories." :)
Thanks,
BJD
 
Once I get my patches built and dialed in I start with equalizing the volumes. I start with the clean. Make sure there is no clipping and then set my next patch which just has a little bite. I set it a couple db louder so when I solo it cuts through. My next patch is a med chunk which is probably 1-2 db up again and patch 4 which is my lead is about the same. maybe 1-2 db though. Once I have set the volumes I put it away and take a break. I will come back after my ears rest a bit and go through it another time. I do this a couple times and I always end up making a couple small changes till I get it right.
 
Big Joe Daddy said:
Statos,
That is a slick arrangement and it seems relatively simple. Couple other questions....
1. Are you also a vocalist and if so are you at the mercy of the sound guy for your vox monitor levels?
2. With the meter bridge arrangement, do you find yourself eyeballing the thing often, or are you at a 'set it and forget' point.

The reason I ask is that we (I) most often run the board from the stage. We're just a bunch of weekend warriors (classic rock) but we're really working hard on getting and keeping a clean FOH mix. Keeping stage volume to a minimum is a desirable objective. We're running a Presonus StudioLive desk, QSC K Series tops and subs, Yamaha DTX series electric drums, and a mix of IEM's and K10 wedges. Presently, I'm running my Axe II through a K12. We find ourselves regressing back to the wedges more often than not and I really want to make the IEM's work to keep the stage volume down and make the FOH as good as it can be. It sounds to me that you guys have that part dialed in. Do you have any suggestions on what we could do and still pull it off mixing ourselves from the stage?

Also, would love to see some pics of your setup. You know what they say...."A picture tells a thousand stories." :)
Thanks,
BJD
Click to expand...
BJD...sorry for the late reply...I'll try to remember to bring a camera to rehearsal.
I pretty much watch my meters like a television! With everyone on IEM's, I have to control my output to to the console buss.
Not singing now..but I did in the previous band. We were able to get it dialed in as long as everyone had their own AUX from the console. The problem we experienced with wedges was "volume wars"..too many people banging the same pocket,competing to hear themselves.IEM's cured that for the best part. I have run the mix live while playing..that would be tough now. IEM's need someone to monitor/control consistently. Wedges can have the advantage of set and forget for the most part over IEM's.
 
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