How to get that singing sustain with med to low gain sounds?

J

jhp612

Member
So i'm loving the axefx for high gain as well as clean sounds but cant quite get my rig dialed in for what I play most live - low to medium gain sounds ( for church).

For years and years i've used an ac30 non top boost normal chanel ( set clean to the edge of breaking up). the ac30s in my possesion are from the 1960's and have no master volume. Generally its guitar -> a few drive stacked such as an ts808 and a timmy -> dd5 or nova delay -> amp. on the 808 assuming the knobs are straight up and the delay going with a dotted 8th i can generally get the amp to have a singy sustain going that big, warm and lush. However with the ultra ( trying to recreate the same chain) it ends up not sustaining and seems to kinda be a bit sterile. Do you guys have any tips?
 
Re: How to get that singing sustain with med to low gain sou

Forgot to mention on my ultra my chain is

guitar -> ts808 -> mono delay -> class a amp master at about 9 drive at 3 -> 2x12 brit cab with no mic
 
Re: How to get that singing sustain with med to low gain sou

Do you play your Axe-Fx rig with the same volume as your amp rig?
'cause I'd say for low gain but singing sustain sounds you need some proper volume. Not overly loud, but a certain amount.
 
Re: How to get that singing sustain with med to low gain sou

I'll try upping the sag. Yeah I run it at about the same volume anything above 3-4 on the drive on the axefx and it starts breaking up like my real amps :)
 
Re: How to get that singing sustain with med to low gain sou

jhp612 said:
Yeah I run it at about the same volume anything above 3-4 on the drive on the axefx
Click to expand...
He's not talking about the "volume" (drive) setting in the amp block, he's talking about the loudness of the sound you're producing.
 
Re: How to get that singing sustain with med to low gain sou

perceived volume - the volume you hear coming out of the speakers, no matter what the numbers on the axe or a mixer say. the guitar has to hear itself to create (good) feedback, which helps sustain the note.
 
Re: How to get that singing sustain with med to low gain sou

Getting that singing sustain has eluded me since going with the Ultra/FRFR. I'm very eager to hear more on this topic.

I am able to get feedback, but more often than not it's not a higher harmonic. It's just a loud low frequency WOOOOO!!!!!! despite having a PEQ after the cab with a low freq block filter set at 120 hz. It seemed so easy in the past when I was using tube amps and real cabs to turn slightly towards the cab to get that wwwwWWWEEEEEEEE.
 
Re: How to get that singing sustain with med to low gain sou

Might not be the answer you're looking for, but have you tried playing with a hollowbody? It's the only way I've ever managed to get any sort of feedback with my Ultra at low volume.
 
Re: How to get that singing sustain with med to low gain sou

What are you amplifying with? Did an informal shootout with a powered Atomic wedge and a Verve FBT12ma.........with the Atomic nice harmonic feedback was effortless whereas with the Verve it was almost non-existent.....everything was identical - same guitar into the same AXE ULTRA with the same patch......just mine and another forum members observation......YMMV but just a consideration.
 
Re: How to get that singing sustain with med to low gain sou

1) More master, way less drive and engage the boost.
2) Run light compression first in your signal chain (3:1 or 4:1 ratio should do it)
 
Re: How to get that singing sustain with med to low gain sou

alcaldwell said:
1) More master, way less drive and engage the boost.
2) Run light compression first in your signal chain (3:1 or 4:1 ratio should do it)
Click to expand...

Finally, someone mentioned using a compressor. :cool:

Try the Pedal mode as the first block in your chain, with Attack between 1 and 2, Release set fairly long (5 or so), Sustain set to taste (2-4), and a bit of bump to Level (1 or 2 dB) for make-up gain.
 
Re: How to get that singing sustain with med to low gain sou

I reluctant to use a compressor as I dont want to "squish" my tone. In any case I'll have to try when i get back from my business trip next week.
 
Re: How to get that singing sustain with med to low gain sou

I can understand your reluctance to 'squish' your tone. In most P&W settings, I like to have as much dynamic range as possible. Both running a compressor up front and turning up the master will somewhat limit this range. Which is why moderation is key. You need to adjust both things a bit at a time.

The other thing you will likely find is that you will probably lose some low end as well. What has worked best for me is to add some low end back with a PEQ block after the amp.
 
Re: How to get that singing sustain with med to low gain sou

Hope I am not being too basic but here it goes:

Feedback is called a feedback loop because that is what it is.

Strings -> pickup -> amp -> cab
^ <- <-

Your strings make sound which get picked up and amplified. Your speakers then move air and vibrate the strings which in turn causes more sound -- the result is sustaining feedback. So turning up the volume, altering the position of guitar to the speakers, adjust gain stages (guitar, preamp, effects, amp), and adding compression can all increase feedback. Inverting the phase (in I/O audio settings) may help too.
 
Re: How to get that singing sustain with med to low gain sou

I have found input gain optimization to be a key part of "bloom" and sustain. Make sure you are tickling the red!
 
Re: How to get that singing sustain with med to low gain sou

jhp612 said:
I reluctant to use a compressor as I dont want to "squish" my tone. In any case I'll have to try when i get back from my business trip next week.
Click to expand...

The Axe compressor is pretty dang good. As well as the usual controls the axe has a blend a-la Barber Tone Press, but the Axe compressor is way better than my actual Barber Tone Press. Also, try the knee, detection type, and makeup controls. I am able to get significant compressor sustain action while allowing a lot of the initial attack and chime to get through. I don't have experience with rackmount compressors, but the Axe is has by far the most transparent compressor I have ever messed with.

JWW
 
Re: How to get that singing sustain with med to low gain sou

The very first thing you should do is check your noise gate. Turn the ratio all down to make sure the gate is not cutting out your sustain. I was wracking my brain trying to figure out where all my sustain was going and then I was showing my wife how a noise gate worked one day and *boom* there it was. I didn't even know it, but that SOB was sucking the ends off my long single-note bends.
 
Re: How to get that singing sustain with med to low gain sou

Hmmm... my wife didn't come with a noise gate :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
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