How to deal with sound engineers to have the Fractal Fm3 sound perfect in a Live setup : Distorted/Solo Patches drowning in the mix ( worst case )

TitusMaz

TitusMaz

Member
In a live band situation, between 200 and 500 people capacity and more with band dynamics getting louder I had some gigs where when I switched from clean sounds to distorted patches ( for solos ) the solo patches got totally drowned in the mix.

Everything is sounding great either in terms of sound quality and relative volumes when adjusting the patches at home, listening via headphones but Live there was something weird happening.

So in those venues ( don't wanna blame the sound engineer but.. ) found myself having to lift the output volume on the OUT box in the layout menu, but the result is it doesn't really work and instead it goes into feedback.

In all honesty I have to say that in some venues ( with very good sound engineers ) this didn't happen and it all sounded good so I'm wondering if you guys have any suggestions to deal with Sound Engineers and mixers
I'm using my Fractal FM3 Stereo XLR out to Mixer. Plus I have an expression/ Volume pedal.

Also is it good to act on the OUT bank when trying to fix your patch volume on the fly ? Or are there other tips or a " Golden Ratio " for a a Clean to Distorted patch relative volume adjustment

Thanks a lot for your help
 
I'm using a volume pedal and in the solo patch layout the volume block is at the beginning on the chain between the input and before the amp block.
Are you using the filter block in combination with a volume pedal ? I mean aside from the boost to also be able to go to 0 to max volume.
And also on the filter block are you boosting the gain or the level ? and are you controlling it with a switch or an expression pedal ?
 
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TitusMaz said:
I'm using a volume pedal and in the solo patch layout the volume block is at the beginning on the chain between the input and before the amp block.
Are you using the filter block in combination with a volume pedal ? I mean aside from the boost to also be able to go to 0 to max volume.
And also on the filter block are you boosting the gain or the level ? and are you controlling it with a switch or an expression pedal ?
Click to expand...
Using only a filter block. Last block in the chain. Switch activated. No adjustments other than the 3 or 3. 5 db volume boost.
 
chris said:
so you're increasing gain and compression, and not volume? could be why it's getting buried.
Click to expand...
I have other patches where the VolPan block is after the Cab and before the out Block but in terms of results it doesn't change much in those situations where I have the " worst case sound engineer " scenario. I prefer using a Volume pedal on solo patches as it gives me more control but there are situations where there is something set on the FOH side that makes the solo sound drown in the mix.
On the " good shows " everything sounds super perfect !
 
When using a house sound tech or an outside sound company I always contact them beforehand and send them a stage plot/input list.
On the input list I specify the guitarist uses a Fractal Audio FM9 in stereo. The inputs should be panned left and right. Any and all EQ and or processing on these two inputs should be turned off.
This usually works just fine and gives me control over my sound.
 
I've used a volume pedal after the amp/before verb and delay for years.
I always have headroom on the pedal to turn up or down when I need it.
Any tone at any volume.
 
RLD said:
, used a volume pedal after the amp/before verb and delay for years.
I always have headroom on the pedal to turn up or down when I need it.
Any tone at any volume.
Click to expand...
I prefer more fixed levels, with a switchable solo boost. Navigating from some unmarkable "normal" level to another unmarkable solo level, and back, with a pedal, in the middle of a song, is not my idea of fun, especially if you're also singing.
 
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Sometimes you just cant win. I played a gig on a Friday night and the soundguy was licking my boots, the next night in another town / venue, and the soundguy said he had to do "all kinds of things" to make my tones even passable. This still bugs me to this day and I wish I had more time to talk to him to figure out what was his problem.
 
dpeterson said:
Sometimes you just cant win. I played a gig on a Friday night and the soundguy was licking my boots, the next night in another town / venue, and the soundguy said he had to do "all kinds of things" to make my tones even passable. This still bugs me to this day and I wish I had more time to talk to him to figure out what was his problem.
Click to expand...
I've experienced a similar situation at one particular venue. I have all my cuts set up in the Cab block preamp tab. Then I cut around -6 to -12 at roughly 150hz in the global EQ. I've then had a FOH cut me again 200hz to 6k on his board. I assume that with FOH cutting again after I'm dialed in would be a 4th order cut. I was buried in the mix all night and could barely hear myself out of the stage monitors.
From what I've heard and experienced, a typical FOH is going to have a standard "guitar curve" around 200hz to 6000hz. But if we do that in the global EQ on our units, FOH shouldn't do it again.
 
Goonie said:
I've experienced a similar situation at one particular venue. I have all my cuts set up in the Cab block preamp tab. Then I cut around -6 to -12 at roughly 150hz in the global EQ. I've then had a FOH cut me again 200hz to 6k on his board. I assume that with FOH cutting again after I'm dialed in would be a 4th order cut. I was buried in the mix all night and could barely hear myself out of the stage monitors.
From what I've heard and experienced, a typical FOH is going to have a standard "guitar curve" around 200hz to 6000hz. But if we do that in the global EQ on our units, FOH shouldn't do it again.
Click to expand...
That's quite an interesting example. Even if the FOH is giving you a standard "guitar curve" around 200hz to 6000hz you should be able to cut through with no issues. Could the issue be related to other instruments " invading " your frequencies when things get louder and more intense ? For example I'm playing in a Gospel Church too and sometimes when the whole choir is blasting the guitar can't cut through anymore. Could it also be the FOH not being powerful enough to handle to much stuff ?
 
Here's my take as a player and sound engineer:

1. Test your presets through a PA speaker at gig volume.

2. Remember, perceived volume matters. Clean tones aren't as naturally compressed as distorted ones, so they cut through more. Test your clean, distorted, and boost/solo sounds repeatedly, focusing on how loud they "sound" rather than the level on the unit. Adjust so they sound balanced, with the solo being a bit louder (about 3-5dB).

3. Any competent sound engineer will know how to handle a modeling pedal. Even when micing a real amp and cab, I still need to adjust the faders sometimes from song to song. Sometimes guitar solos need a boost because of how loud the band is or if the song is really focused on the solo. They can't just set it and forget. If they aren't doing this, they're just being lazy.

4. Some sound engineers will prebake their channels with settings for EQ, Compression, Gates, etc, but unless they are new or terrible they don't need to turn all those on unless it doesn't sound right in their speakers.

End of the day, level your presets by how loud it sounds (not a meter..well except clipping, watch that one) and give a bit more volume to your solo. The rest is on them and out of your hands.
 
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