How much should the singers be paid?

[Rex Rox]

…Almost as bad as guitarists!

Same rule though, in my experience the best guitarists I have played with are usually pretty unassuming about their talents. The best ones do the Zappa thing - they shut up and play their guitar. Then your jaw drops.

After that it's kind of a an "awe shucks moment" when you compliment them.

 

[fcs101]

But you were playing on every song and helping move equipment/ sharing ownership of equipment I assume

Your overarching situation is are you a band (team) or are you a project? If you're a band, then refer back to Rex Rox's initial response. If you're a project, then it's the project owner's decision...just know that you'll probably have to constantly deal with replacing talent.

EDIT: I also thought warlockii had some really good points about expectations for division of labor. You've got to be proactive with that (i.e., a singer is not going to automatically help with equipment teardown/setup).

 

[Stratman68]

But you were playing on every song and helping move equipment/ sharing ownership of equipment I assume

Actually I OWNED all the PA equipment. I didn't get any extra. Never asked or even considered it. I already paid for it.
Fabian, just seems you are looking for reasons to pay them less. Why not tell them for equal pay they should do equal work-move equipment etc.
Their instruments are mics so why should they pay for guitar amps? Just sayin. I believe it causes more animosity than it' worth.

 

[fcs101]

Actually I OWNED all the PA equipment. I didn't get any extra. Never asked or even considered it. I already paid for it.
Fabian, just seems you are looking for reasons to pay them less. Why not tell them for equal pay they should do equal work-move equipment etc.
Their instruments are mics so why should they pay for guitar amps? Just sayin. I believe it causes more animosity than it' worth.

Just sayin...

 

[Rex Rox]

If you're a project, then it's the project owner's decision...

^This is true^

With caveat: Projects still function best as if they were bands in my experience. And that comes from having my own projects. As soon as there is a group the effort works best as a collaboration. Again, any "this person gets more than this person" will stifle creativity, lead to strife, and eventually implosion or turn over.

If it's a big money earning endeavor built off one person's sweat equity or creativity then everyone else is just a hired gun. So treat them as such. Especially since you will have the cash and gravity to attract other talent if they can't cut the mustard. Then turn over of bad assets is good business.

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

Actually I OWNED all the PA equipment. I didn't get any extra. Never asked or even considered it. I already paid for it.
Fabian, just seems you are looking for reasons to pay them less. Why not tell them for equal pay they should do equal work-move equipment etc.
Their instruments are mics so why should they pay for guitar amps? Just sayin. I believe it causes more animosity than it' worth.

I just spent the better part of 10k on PA and various other things to assure I never need anyone again to make money. I think it was money well spent. I wouldn’t dream of taking extra from my band for it but it is understood everyone has to pitch in with setup/teardown. We are actually going to offer full band and duo so places that pay a little less I’ll take a little less to take care of the guys and make more on the duo end.

 

[TG3K]

Our band is a relatively compact 4-piece. We all get an equal cut of the pay. Two guitarists using modelers only, a bass player using a 4x10 combo amp, and a drummer with a very sparse kit. Everyone sings except me. (I do a fair amount of the talking between songs. Everyone moves and sets up their own gear. Even though I don't sing, I own the PA mixer and mains (two K12s...we don't need subs at this point). I figured since I only run my guitars through FOH (and my own monitor), having a decent PA would benefit the sound of my guitars. I also have my own powered monitor (a K10) and everyone else owns their own mic and monitor. I move and set up the PA mains and mixer, and the other guys just plug their stuff into the mixer themselves. I typically run FOH and the drummer runs the monitors. (We're both on tablets going into a Soundcraft Ui24r.)

We also usually have an old friend of mine sitting in the crowd with another tablet primarily to punch vocal effects in and out and to make minor level adjustments. He's also a guitarist and likes to help me set up and pack my gear. Even though he's told us that he just enjoys hanging out and helping for fun, 3 of the 4 of us in the band always kick some money his way at the end of the night.

At the end of the gig, my buddy (and sometimes one or two of the other guys) will help with packing and moving my gear, but they also know I'm pretty anal about how my gear is packed up. (After 8 or 9 years, my buddy the "soundman" has my system down pretty good.)

 

[pauly]

So… when someone cranks up the monitoring system, and blows the diaphragms in 6 wedges, or swings a Neumann vocal mic on its cord, hitting the stage wrecking it, if you’re not charging rent for the pa, do you just cover the expense with no complaints? I’d be whining and moaning all the way to the bank
I’d charge rental for the pa at a ‘charitable’ rate (less than a formal hire company), so it could be maintained to a high standard.

Thanks
Pauly

I just spent the better part of 10k on PA and various other things to assure I never need anyone again to make money. I think it was money well spent. I wouldn’t dream of taking extra from my band for it but it is understood everyone has to pitch in with setup/teardown. We are actually going to offer full band and duo so places that pay a little less I’ll take a little less to take care of the guys and make more on the duo end.

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

So… when someone cranks up the monitoring system, and blows the diaphragms in 6 wedges, or swings a Neumann vocal mic on its cord, hitting the stage wrecking it, if you’re not charging rent for the pa, do you just cover the expense with no complaints? I’d be whining and moaning all the way to the bank
I’d charge rental for the pa at a ‘charitable’ rate (less than a formal hire company), so it could be maintained to a high standard.

Thanks
Pauly

My guys wouldn’t recklessly do anything stupid to break my stuff. I’m not running sound for strangers, it’s for my own band. If something breaks through normal wear and tear, that’s on me. Am I charging my band for strings, too?

 

[dpeterson]

Do equal pay and dock them if they miss load in and load out. That will motivate them.

 

[BBN]

Singers should always get paid the most. Oh, I'm a singer by the way.

Kidding of course.
I manage my cover band. Booking, I own the PA, I run the PA, taxes, set lists, website.
We split everything equally.
They're all good friends, they all help with lugging gear and setting up.
Any band I've witnessed trying to run it like a 'musician for hire' situation, never lasts. There is always animosity.

All that said, there is a reason we don't have a second singer. It's a weird situation. Like a part time band member if they don't sing on every song (which is really not possible). So I appreciate the imbalance in your band member contributions, and why you'd be trying to figure out the right pay. There is no perfect solution.

 

[JTI]

Singers should always get paid the most. Oh, I'm a singer by the way.

Kidding of course.
I manage my cover band. Booking, I own the PA, I run the PA, taxes, set lists, website.
We split everything equally.
They're all good friends, they all help with lugging gear and setting up.
Any band I've witnessed trying to run it like a 'musician for hire' situation, never lasts. There is always animosity.

All that said, there is a reason we don't have a second singer. It's a weird situation. Like a part time band member if they don't sing on every song (which is really not possible). So I appreciate the imbalance in your band member contributions, and why you'd be trying to figure out the right pay. There is no perfect solution.

Equal split is the way.

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

Singers should always get paid the most. Oh, I'm a singer by the way.

Kidding of course.
I manage my cover band. Booking, I own the PA, I run the PA, taxes, set lists, website.
We split everything equally.
They're all good friends, they all help with lugging gear and setting up.
Any band I've witnessed trying to run it like a 'musician for hire' situation, never lasts. There is always animosity.

All that said, there is a reason we don't have a second singer. It's a weird situation. Like a part time band member if they don't sing on every song (which is really not possible). So I appreciate the imbalance in your band member contributions, and why you'd be trying to figure out the right pay. There is no perfect solution.

Just spent damn close to 5 figures on PA and lights. I wouldn’t consider anything less than equal split.