How good is the Axe into a tube power amp or even a really good SS power amp or even FRFR?

axes

axes

Experienced
I know it's been discussed several times in the forum but I'm looking for brutal honesty here.
I have a Mesa JP-2C and some other tube heads that I love to death. I've decided to stick with these amps even though I have the Axe III but I finally got to testing with a Suhr Reactive Load and now I know how accurate the Axe's JP-2C model is. Therefore I feel like it would make total financial sense to sell the JP-2C and possibly the other amps as well.
Even though I mainly play through studio monitors now I don't want to lose the opportunity of having the amp in the room sound when I feel like it. So I've been thinking with the money recovered by selling the heads I'd have plenty of budget to get 2 or even 3 tube poweramps, maybe a Marshall 9100/9200 and a Mesa 2:90 (and if I really want to go all out then a Fryette 2/90/2) to be able to cover both "british" and "american" tones. Since these are all stereo poweramps the stereo appeal is also huge and with my budget I could easily go for 2x212 Greenback and 2x212 V30 cabs to have all the options I'd ever want.
However, I live in a very small European country where I don't have the opportunity to try any tube poweramps because even the largest music stores are not stocking any of them and even the used market barely sees 1 or 2 of these every year.
So I don't have any other options than to ask for your brutally honest opinion on the matter: if i were to plug the Axe into a tube poweramp on the JP-2C model, would it sound and feel just as good as if for example plugging the slave of my JP-2C into the same tube poweramp?
Or am I on the wrong track and should go for a very high quality solid state power amp and just let the Axe PA modeling and impedance curves do the rest? Or should I just go for MF10s and trust in the tremendous amount of praise from everyone how "guitar cab-like" it sounds?
I'm sorry for asking these questions like this but I really don't have any opportunity to try these possibilities and will probably have to pull the trigger blindly which I really hate doing. Thanks.
 
japri said:
Before I use tube amp and always want to get feel close to the real, Now I used a normal flat solid state amplifier. and already forgot the necessity back to tube amplifier. and still very happy.
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Thanks! Which SS PA are you using?
 
touch33 said:
Brutal honesty? OK.

The AFXIII absolutely stinks. You should get rid of yours immediately and stick to “real” gear. My shipping address is…
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Haha. :rolleyes:
I love my Axe so much I'm actually considering selling everything else. I'd just like to be sure I'm not going to regret it by locking a door that I still like to open sometimes.
 
Tube power amps - particularly those like Marshall 9100, Mesa 50-50, 20-20... color the sound, so will skew the intended Axefx power amp modelling if in use (and in the case of some models (ie ClassA) will not produce nearly the same power amp gain character as the model is intending (or will skew it if layered on top)). So as one trick ponys, maybe with p.a. modelling off, on some models, they are great fun (I have some also), but, to use Axfx as designed with p.a modelling on: SS clean hi headroom stereo p.a. is the ticket (ie Matrix), or, if you absolutely must have real tubes, at least a clean hi headroom tube amp with minimal coloration (ie Fryette LxII)
 
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sprint said:
Tube power amps - particularly those like Marshall 9100, Mesa 50-50, 20-20... color the sound, so will skew the intended Axefx power amp modelling if in use (and in the case of some models (ie ClassA) will not produce nearly the same power amp gain character as the model is intending). So as one trick ponys, maybe with p.a. modelling off, on some models, they are great fun (I have some also), but, to use Axfx as designed with p.a modelling on: SS clean hi headroom stereo p.a. is the ticket (ie Matrix), or, if you absolutely must have real tubes, at least a clean hi headroom tube amp with minimal coloration (ie Fryette LxII)
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Thank you, this is very useful. If I understand correctly the LxII would be similar to an SS PA in this case.
If taking the SS route, which Matrix model would be my best bet? Also, would Matrix be my best bet at all? If money was no object what SS PA would you go for?
 
axes said:
Thank you, this is very useful. If I understand correctly the LxII would be similar to an SS PA in this case.
If taking the SS route, which Matrix model would be my best bet? Also, would Matrix be my best bet at all? If money was no object what SS PA would you go for?
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Matrix has had some business issues lately and idk how the support would be if something went wrong. Quilter makes some fantastic SS power amps and I think Cliff has also mentioned liking QSC?
 
axes said:
Thank you, this is very useful. If I understand correctly the LxII would be similar to an SS PA in this case.
If taking the SS route, which Matrix model would be my best bet? Also, would Matrix be my best bet at all? If money was no object what SS PA would you go for?
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I have Matrix GT1000fx with no complaints, but if I were in the market again today, not sure what I would choose. Search this forum for Matrix, Fryette LxII / powerstation, Pedal Baby, SD PowerStage... lots of good insight in many threads here.
 
Master the settings inside the Axe-FX and then the kind of power amp won't much matter. It's a choice you can dial in. This takes time and patience but is a rich reward of learning a platform this powerful.

That said, if you are picky I'd look at Class A/B SS power amps as they are closer to tube feel out of the gate IME than Class D which feel stiffer but can be dialed in too. I have both kinds, but honestly I wonder how much of what I feel is visual bias? I can't say. They aren't wildly different to be sure.

I own a JP-2C myself, got a custom tan grill even, but it's stupidly loud even when I try to dial it quiet. It sits on my cab unused ninety five times out of one hundred. I like it b/c the knobs and sliders are real world, I love knobs, not bc it's honestly "better for tone" in a band context.
 
Mongillo19 said:
Matrix has had some business issues lately and idk how the support would be if something went wrong. Quilter makes some fantastic SS power amps and I think Cliff has also mentioned liking QSC?
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Thank you, I'll look into Quilter.
sprint said:
I have Matrix GT1000fx with no complaints, but if I were in the market again today, not sure what I would choose. Search this forum for Matrix, Fryette LxII / powerstation, Pedal Baby, SD PowerStage... lots of good insight in many threads here.
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Thank you for the suggestions, I'll definitely look into all the different brands out there.
FPFL said:
Master the settings inside the Axe-FX and then the kind of power amp won't much matter. It's a choice you can dial in. This takes time and patience but is a rich reward of learning a platform this powerful.

That said, if you are picky I'd look at Class A/B SS power amps as they are closer to tube feel out of the gate IME than Class D which feel stiffer but can be dialed in too. I have both kinds, but honestly I wonder how much of what I feel is visual bias? I can't say. They aren't wildly different to be sure.

I own a JP-2C myself, got a custom tan grill even, but it's stupidly loud even when I try to dial it quiet. It sits on my cab unused ninety five times out of one hundred. I like it b/c the knobs and sliders are real world, I love knobs, not bc it's honestly "better for tone" in a band context.
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Thank you for the Class A/B SS PA tip! That could be exactly what I'm looking for. Do you have any suggestions?
I feel you with the JP-2C. I love this head so much but in my current living and playing circumstances it's not really useful to me. More like something I love looking at and taking care of. But in my current situation it's a luxury for me to keep it just for that.
ESW said:
I have a Fryette LXII that I use with a real cabinet and I love it.
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Thank you! Would you please elaborate? How are you running your Axe with it? What kind of amp models are you mostly using? Is it similarly great with everything? I guess you also have the PA modeling turned on and not running an IR?
 
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axes said:
Thank you! Would you please elaborate? How are you running your Axe with it? What kind of amp models are you mostly using? Is it similarly great with everything? I guess you also have the PA modeling turned on and not running an IR?
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Exactly - I use power amp modeling and have the output mode set to "SS Pwr Amp + Cab". I mostly use Marshalls, Hiwatts and the Komet 60, but I haven't found an amp it doesn't like. The drawbacks are that it's kind of heavy, and at lower volumes you'll hear the fan noise.
 
ESW said:
Exactly - I use power amp modeling and have the output mode set to "SS Pwr Amp + Cab". I mostly use Marshalls, Hiwatts and the Komet 60, but I haven't found an amp it doesn't like. The drawbacks are that it's kind of heavy, and at lower volumes you'll hear the fan noise.
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Do you maybe have any kind of room sound recording or video about your setup? I'd be very very curious to hear how it sounds. I know it's different from reality but I probably could imagine.
 
I if you're wanting to replace the traditional tube amp experience a traditional guitar cabinet with power amp is the way to go. FRFR setups are cool too (give you more tonal flexibility), but that's a different experience. A good stage oriented FRFR is going to sound very much like your studio monitors only with a lot more volume. The Axe-FX III into a power amp and 4x12 is basically indistinguishable from using a tube amp and 4x12.

The question of which power amplifier to use with the guitar cab is something that I've been exploring a bit myself lately. I have a Fryette PS2, Seymour Duncan Power Stage 700, QSC RMX2450, QSC PLX3102, and a QSC PLX3402. I have not done a head to head shootout with all of these options (yet), but all of them work well enough with the Axe and a guitar cabinet that I'd be fine to any one of them as my only option. The Fryette is the one that colors the sound the most out of the bunch, but it still sounds great. Cliff and many Fractal artists use Matrix GTFX series amplifiers, so I'm sure those are worth checking out as well.
 
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The AXE is a tool and think of it that way. Be-it using a tube power amp, a SS power amp and real guitar cabinets or using the AXE with FRFR studio monitors, or FRFR wedges or even headphones this can sound amazing in all of these applications. Devin Townsend said something along the lines of one can make the AXE sound amazing or one can make the AXE sound like complete ass. Again, this is a tool and all of the keys to the castle are inside of this box. I for one recently sold off all of my boutique tube amps and guitar cabs and now just use FRFR wedges or studio monitors and I have the best tone ever. The options are endless.
 
axes said:
Do you maybe have any kind of room sound recording or video about your setup? I'd be very very curious to hear how it sounds. I know it's different from reality but I probably could imagine.
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I don't have anything handy, but Fryette has a video of the LXII with the Axe-FX II:
 
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