How close will I get with a real guitar cab?

[krablar]

This is a bit long winded, but hopefully some kind soul will read it.

I know some people are really happy with their FRFR setups but i've yet to hear one in person. My primary usage for the AxeFX was for low volume jamming and recording (primarily through headphones) so that type of setup seemed like overkill. I felt frustrated by being limited to however the cab IR's are captured and having to dig around to find ones that fit the sound I was going for. I also found myself spending a lot of time tweaking on the AxeFX rather than just dialing some knobs and playing. The amount of control in the unit is incredible yet mind numbing and unlike an amp, it's possible to really get off the path and spend a lot of time dialing in some sounds that aren't pleasing. So ultimately I decided to sell it. For the amount of money it cost, I told myself to be extremely critical of the unit but perhaps I was too quick to judge? I thought the unit was great (and the effects are stunning!) and i'm starting to feel like I didn't give it a fair chance especially on the amp/cab side of things.

What made me start thinking this was I recently tried a POD 2.0 going through an SLA into a guitar cab...and feel as though this was really what was missing for me with the AxeFX. One, the sound of a real speaker in a room instead of through my headphones. Two, the ability to just turn some knobs on the POD and dial in a sound (side note: I'd love to see a rackmount midi controller that mimics amp knobs...that I could switch amp models, bass, mids, treble, level, etc with). For some reason, having these in a menu made me not spin knobs as much, I'd love to be able to adjust these core settings at any time regardless of what menu I was in. Three, I was able to control the volume a lot more easily than with a tube amp (which I constantly want to turn up louder and louder)....which made me reconsider my thoughts on using a cabinet.

I don't play in a cover band. Having access to the power of the AxeFX is a want more than a need. I usually start with a basic sound and build up from there...and for some reason I had a hard time dialing that in through headphones with the AxeFX when I owned it. My experience with the POD through the guitar cab is making me think I was looking for something that may not be in the headphones (the POD doesn't ring my bell through headphones either...but that was only $80).

So does anybody just skip the whole IR/cab simulation stuff and just own multiple guitar cabs appropriate for what the style of amp they want to play (IE...fender blackface patch while plugged into a fender cab/speaker)? Seems like for about the cost of a nice FRFR setup, I could cover a few cabs that I want and just plug into whatever suits the sound i'm going for. Is this a backwards way of looking at it? Am I jumping down the wrong rabbit hole and is FRFR really where it's at? I realize it's not as versatile as the FRFR setup...but I only want to do a few core sounds really really well.

I'm not an either / or guy...I love the tube amp that I have and I'm not selling it to fund another AxeFX. I'm considering adding a Deluxe Reverb or Princeton Reverb. I would almost never crank these amps, I would be buying it for the clean sound and using my pedals with it. As I look at my options here, I can't help but wonder if the AxeFX "can do that too" with the right cab.

I guess the short of all of this is...if I picked up another AxeFX and combined it with a Deluxe Reverb Cab...how close would I get to the real thing? Am I better off just buying the amps I want?

Any thoughts on this would be really appreciated!

 

[daveg62]

I am relatively new using the axe-fx, but i can understand where you are coming from . I used a Boss gt8 for quite awhile through a frfr set-up and didn't have near as many options for cab, micing sims as the axe but nonetheless there was still quite a bit of time lost tweaking for apparently no reason.
With my new setup I run the Axe-fX into a stereo solid state power amp and then into a 2x12 closed back stereo guitar cabinet. I don't use any of the cab or mic sims in the axe-fx since I'm using a real guitar cabinet. I don't miss them and I seem to be able to get any sound I want using the amp models and od's. I really like this set-up and I don't think I am interested in the frfr set-up with the axe-fx. Maybe it might sound better I don't know, but I'm more than happy with my sound now, best I've ever had.

 

[Sixstring]

Ok I will try to take a stab at you questions hope it helps....

My primary usage for the AxeFX was for low volume jamming and recording (primarily through headphones)

Were you using a quality headphone? Just had to ask to make sure you covered your base.

I felt frustrated by being limited to however the cab IR's are captured and having to dig around to find ones that fit the sound I was going for.

Have you captured the mic-ed tone you are looking for to serve as a frame of reference to help you tune your Axe? I know it helps to have what your looking for close by for comparison when tunning.

I told myself to be extremely critical of the unit but perhaps I was too quick to judge? I thought the unit was great (and the effects are stunning!) and i'm starting to feel like I didn't give it a fair chance especially on the amp/cab side of things.

I did the same thing and i'm on my third one well second really I needed to sell one to pay down a bill.

the sound of a real speaker in a room instead of through my headphones.

Apples to Oranges comparison.

(side note: I'd love to see a rackmount midi controller that mimics amp knobs...that I could switch amp models, bass, mids, treble, level, etc with).

This would be a good idea to mention if it already hasn't in the "wish list" thread.

So does anybody just skip the whole IR/cab simulation stuff and just own multiple guitar cabs appropriate for what the style of amp they want to play

I have and I own a few but they are both closed back cabs loaded with Vin 30's 412 and 112. I want to get an open back with a blue to see how it will sound.

Seems like for about the cost of a nice FRFR setup, I could cover a few cabs that I want and just plug into whatever suits the sound i'm going for. Is this a backwards way of looking at it? Am I jumping down the wrong rabbit hole and is FRFR really where it's at?

I think their is no right or wrong it's what works for you and what your trying to accomplish. Personally I like a live guitar cab sound and not a mic-ed guitar cab sound. Their are differant camps on this as well. some will say you just need the right FRFR cab and all is perfect. I have played through a few and haven't found one that floats my boat yet.

I love the tube amp that I have and I'm not selling it to fund another AxeFX. I'm considering adding a Deluxe Reverb or Princeton Reverb. I would almost never crank these amps, I would be buying it for the clean sound and using my pedals with it. As I look at my options here, I can't help but wonder if the AxeFX "can do that too" with the right cab.

It probably could given enough time and tunning with the Axe and amp/cab and speaker combination.

I guess the short of all of this is...if I picked up another AxeFX and combined it with a Deluxe Reverb Cab...how close would I get to the real thing? Am I better off just buying the amps I want?

My guess is you could get so close it would probably convince 95% of people listening to it from behind a curtain especally if your going to use a pedal for your distortion. but if you looking to be dead on you may want to buy the real thing but then again your just using the real thing for the clean and effecting the tone with a pedal.

I have been able to nail down some really nice amp tones with the cabs that Im using and very convincingly one in particular I did about two or three weeks ago was a Diveded by 13 JRT 9/15 side by side it was very hard to tell the difference.

Six

 

[krablar]

I am relatively new using the axe-fx, but i can understand where you are coming from . I used a Boss gt8 for quite awhile through a frfr set-up and didn't have near as many options for cab, micing sims as the axe but nonetheless there was still quite a bit of time lost tweaking for apparently no reason.
With my new setup I run the Axe-fX into a stereo solid state power amp and then into a 2x12 closed back stereo guitar cabinet. I don't use any of the cab or mic sims in the axe-fx since I'm using a real guitar cabinet. I don't miss them and I seem to be able to get any sound I want using the amp models and od's. I really like this set-up and I don't think I am interested in the frfr set-up with the axe-fx. Maybe it might sound better I don't know, but I'm more than happy with my sound now, best I've ever had.

Thanks Dave. I've decided to give it another whirl...I bought a standard so when that gets here I think i'm going to try the same scenario you describe. Axe-FX -> SLA1 (no cab or mic sims) -> a few nice 1x12 cabs

I'm interested in the FRFR from the perspective of being able to use the same patches direct or through the FRFR. The atomic is the most appealing mainly because it's designed with the AxeFX in mind...but we'll see. If the sla into a cabinet sounds like a guitar amp to me, I may be quite happy with that.

 

[krablar]

Were you using a quality headphone? Just had to ask to make sure you covered your base.

AKG-240's...they are quality to me...i'm sure there's better tho.

Have you captured the mic-ed tone you are looking for to serve as a frame of reference to help you tune your Axe? I know it helps to have what your looking for close by for comparison when tunning.

I started going down this path right before I sold it. I think I need to do more of this the second time around.

I did the same thing and i'm on my third one well second really I needed to sell one to pay down a bill.

lol, this make me feel better.

This would be a good idea to mention if it already hasn't in the "wish list" thread.

It probably is, but i'll post the request to map these controls to a midi controller to be sure.

I think their is no right or wrong it's what works for you and what your trying to accomplish. Personally I like a live guitar cab sound and not a mic-ed guitar cab sound. Their are differant camps on this as well. some will say you just need the right FRFR cab and all is perfect. I have played through a few and haven't found one that floats my boat yet.

I think i'd prefer a live guitar cab sound in this application...but the power of FRFR is appealing for sure.

My guess is you could get so close it would probably convince 95% of people listening to it from behind a curtain especally if your going to use a pedal for your distortion. but if you looking to be dead on you may want to buy the real thing but then again your just using the real thing for the clean and effecting the tone with a pedal.

I have been able to nail down some really nice amp tones with the cabs that Im using and very convincingly one in particular I did about two or three weeks ago was a Diveded by 13 JRT 9/15 side by side it was very hard to tell the difference.

I remember reading about your Divided by 13 experiment...really interesting stuff. I think at the time I was still searching for the sound through headphones so I didn't think about it closely enough then. I don't need to "nail" the sound exactly...I think if I can get the sound of "a nice amp in a room" i'd be pretty stoked.

Thanks to you both for taking the time to respond. It will be fun to give this another try with a new perspective. Cheers! :geek:

 

[Sixstring]

Any time, if and when you get another Axe and get stuck just give a PM and I and others I'm sure will be more than willing to land a hand to help you find what your looking for.

Six

 

[steveb]

I use the Axe in multiple ways depending on mood and or need. For one band I'm currently in, I need acoustic as well as electric sounds, so for that one I'm going Axe into either a Mackie SRM450 or a Genz Benz Shenandoah acoustic amp. I'll probably replace both of those with another FRFR monitor at some point since neither one is exactly light weight or small.

Sometimes I run the Axe into the effects return of my Boogie head and into a guitar cab. This way I get alot of tonal variety with that "real guitar rig" psychological connection. I can also run it 4 cable with the boogie and use the Axe as an effects unit with the Boog or use the models as needed. I still get the most personal satisfaction running the Axe into a power amp and guitar speakers. In reality, I am more of a "one basic tone" kind of guy. My Boog IIC+ is more than sufficient for nearly anything I do just by switching between clean and dirt channels and using the volume control on the guitar. For cover band stuff, its nice to have the additional sounds of the Axe, but I've never been a stickler for trying to exactly mimic cover tune tones.

I think alot of people jump into the FRFR fray a bit early maybe. Many of us are just used to that standard type of backline, and sell the AxeFx short when running into FRFR not because of any fault of the Axe, but rather because they've changed too much at one time and haven't acclimated to the new paradigm.

 

[krablar]

Finally had a chance to try this out today. Wow....I mean WOW! Yep, this is really nice! Guitar -> AxeFX -> SLA1 -> Cabinet (tested with a greenback)

I brought up a patch, turned off the cab sim and there it is. Dropped a drive block in front and quickly dialed in a nice overdrive. I may play around with some different speaker / cab combos...but what I heard from my main cabinet has me convinced the sound is in there. I think I can easily build a virtual rig from here and have a few different cabs as needed.

What I really like about this setup...is that since I still have my tube amp and i'm not getting rid of that...having different flavors of cabs will compliment both setups. I'm really glad I gave this a second shot...of course now i'm wishing I had bought another Ultra. :twisted: