Higher Gain Amps sound lower in volume

WhiteSpace

WhiteSpace

Inspired
I am trying to get a Marshall like sound for some songs. I am playing through a Yamaha DBR10 at Gig Levels, but my presets whether I use a Marshall, Freidman or similar higher gain amps sound at lower volume than my presets with a Fender type clean tone with a Blues OD type pedal dialled in.

Even though my levels are both set to the 0 db. The higher gain amps I would describe as lower in volume, fizzier, or harder to hear.

I am trying to get a similar sound to when I am in a rehearsal studio with a real Marshal 4x12 stack ;-)
I can get this on my AX8 with fender amps, but i can't seem to dial it in with any high gain amps I try.

What am I doing wrong or do you need real cabs for this and not FR?
 
Turn them up? Use your ears not the meters? High gain compresses/limits the hell out of your signal which greatly impacts dynamic range and perceived volume. There aren't the same transient peaks on the higher gain amps that you get on clean amps. You either need to run the higher gain amps louder, or work with a tone that contains more mid-high frequency content so it cuts better in a mix.
 
WhiteSpace said:
do you need real cabs for this and not FR?
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Nope. There’s probably too much bass which makes it seem loud via meter, but not loud via ear.

Mids are the secret. Reduce bass and treble.

Did you dial tones in at bedroom volume or at gig volume?
 
you also have to consider the more distorted and amp, the more compressed it is. even at equal DB's the apparent volume may be less
 
Another way is to reduce the volume of the clean sounds and then increase the overall volume of the AX8
 
Depending of what you playing, a compressor block after! a clean amp help to reduce high picks dynamics and normalise volume without loosing natural dynamics of an amp.
 
_PeLUsA_ said:
Keep in mind the Fletcher-Munson effect too.
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fletcher-Munson, aka the curve of minimum human audibility, is essentially flat across the range of typical guitar tones by 50dB, and the OP already said he’s playing using a good monitor at louder volumes. Not a contributing factor in this case.
 
Try a LUFS meter to match levels across presets, it works great for me and it allows me to only make small (like +-1dB max) adjustments by ear after that.
 
DLC86 said:
Try a LUFS meter to match levels across presets, it works great for me and it allows me to only make small (like +-1dB max) adjustments by ear after that.
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That's very interesting - never heard of this - here is the link for others who might be as ignorant as me:

https://www.klangfreund.com/lufsmeter/

DLC86 can you explain how you use this to match your levels (eg, are you using on a DAW?). I'd be interested to know how you do it using this plug-in. Thanks!
 
Another approach is to lower the gain of the high gain tone. It will reduce the compression and help with perceived volume. I know it's unthinkable, but it does work in helping cut through a mix.
 
vkinetic said:
That's very interesting - never heard of this - here is the link for others who might be as ignorant as me:

https://www.klangfreund.com/lufsmeter/

DLC86 can you explain how you use this to match your levels (eg, are you using on a DAW?). I'd be interested to know how you do it using this plug-in. Thanks!
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For convenience I use Xlutop Chainer which is just a vst host, but any DAW will be fine.
I use another plugin by the way (I don't remember the name at the moment), there are tons out there doing the same thing, I think even a few free ones.

Simply send the output of your ax8 to the meter plugin and aim for the same "integrated" level across your presets, playing what you will play with those.
The integrated meter displays the average level over a certain period of time so make sure you start the measurement when you begin playing, stop it when you finish and reset it when you change preset.

Other than that it's pretty intuitive I think ;)
 
OK. Here are the things I did:

1) Buy OH 412 MRBW GNR M25 MMMC IRs
2) Select one of the M+ MidBoost Cabs in the SM57 Mic folder.
3) Turn the presence control up to about 7 on my Friedman V1. All others at default I think.
4) Turn the volume on guitar from 7 to 10 for my high gain settings. My other presets are about a 7.5 to get to the bar on the AX8 Utility VU meter. With my high gain they exceed this by a few DB but sound same volume to me.

So used my ears to equal the volume and added more midrange two ways..one via cab IR and the other via the presence knob.

These OH IRs are very clear and detailed.
Sweet! Sweet! Sweet! Marshall tone coming at me now. Got to try at Gig level on Tuesday @ rehearsal factory.

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.
 
DLC86 said:
For convenience I use Xlutop Chainer which is just a vst host, but any DAW will be fine.
I use another plugin by the way (I don't remember the name at the moment), there are tons out there doing the same thing, I think even a few free ones.

Simply send the output of your ax8 to the meter plugin and aim for the same "integrated" level across your presets, playing what you will play with those.
The integrated meter displays the average level over a certain period of time so make sure you start the measurement when you begin playing, stop it when you finish and reset it when you change preset.

Other than that it's pretty intuitive I think ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks very much DLC86 - very helpful
 
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