High volume vs Low volume

I

Ionut Covaciu

Member
Hello there to everyone. I have some questions regarding creating of a patch. I play mostly metal. Now, my big problem is that when i dial a patch on studio monitors at low volume, it will not sound the same on a higher volume on the exactly same monitor. I am aware of the Fletcher Munson curve but... i tried to make a patch that works on high volume on the studio monitors. But when i plugged it in live on a PA, well, it sounded very different( on rehearsal for example).
Now, the question is, what is the best system on what you can create your patch in order to make an equally sounding patch as well on the PA as on the studio monitors? On studio monitors for example at high volumes it sounds nice, rich and warm. On the PA on the other hand it sounds harsh, lifeless and dull.
How do you create your patches? On high volume on the monitors or on high volume of the PA?


Thank you in advance
 
The different applications will almost always require a way to compensate especially when you're throwing the volume variable in, it will always change the sound. I created three copies of most of my custom patches for different applications, recording, live n loud, and medium practice volume. But it's imperative that you must tweak at the volume you intend to be playing at.
 
But when you create those three copies, are you creating them on studio monitors? Or a FRFR? Or when you are going to a PA you start to tweak your tone for that situation?
 
Hey Ionut,

I agree with what Billbill said, and will add a few more comments. Even at the very same volume, FRFRs, PA speakers and guitar cab speakers each color your guitar sound in their own certain, specific way. What may sound "creamy" through a vintage Marshall cab may likely sound brittle and harsh through FRFRs, if there is no EQ compensation for the differing response of each type of speaker setup.

Thus, if my high volume tones are going to be produced lived with guitar cabs, I'll make sure not to create them using FRFRs or PA speakers, simply because I want to replicate the very speaker setup I'll be using. For me personally, the EQ and pre-amp gain approach needed to get great tone through a guitar cab is much different than when using FRFRs, so I'm sure that if I created my presets using one system, but then used them at high volume in another without any tweaking, I would not be happy with the results.

In short, my earnest advice, would be to create your high volume tones with whatever speaker setup will be used at high volume. If you're going to use guitar cabs at high volume, then don't use FRFRs to create the preset.

Good luck my friend!
 
Thank you very much for the replies. I mainly create my guitar tones through studio monitors. I also created a tone for a friend that i jam with. On the studio monitors it sounded well. On the PA from the rehearsing room it sounded ok. Needed a little bit of tweaking. I punch the PA at a volume that is equally to the drums in order to sound right. But what have i noticed is that on a concert PA, well, the sound was horrible. It was very bright, very harsh, not melodical at all. It was than when i realised that something is wrong . Maybe i will have to create just like BillbiIll said - a copy of the studio sound with another eq just to work on the live situation. The bad thing is that when you are faced with a soundcheck just before a concert, you don't have enough time to tweak the tone if the tone is sounding very different. I also checked the tone on 4 different situations: my studio monitors, a friends studio monitors, the PA at the rehearsing room and the PA at the concert. 3 of them almost sounde the same, but the third one was horrible....
 
Most folks here generally agree that you should dial in your presets at gig volume. Obviously, there is some differences from one FOH system to the next. I do play mostly at church (about 1500 seats) but do play other venues as well. I have my presets dialed in pretty well. When I play a new venue, I use a wireless system and stand out where I can listen to the FOH. Generally, a flat eq channel strip gets me pretty close to what I want. I may occasionally have to cut or attenuate a bit of high or low, but nothing drastic.
 
I thought that using studio monitors will help you get a "more to reality" tone because of the flat response frequency wise. I allways thought that creating your tone through a PA system will alterate the frequencies and that can trick your ear because of the so called non flat frequency response. Or am i wrong?
 
Ionut Covaciu said:
I thought that using studio monitors will help you get a "more to reality" tone because of the flat response frequency wise. I allways thought that creating your tone through a PA system will alterate the frequencies and that can trick your ear because of the so called non flat frequency response. Or am i wrong?
Click to expand...
The FOH should be relatively flat. The monitor wedges on stage may not be, as many are "tuned" for vocals to cut through.

Make sure the sound engineer starts you out on the mixer with everything flat on the EQ.

However, what The Geeze was saying was not necessarily dialing in tones thru the PA but rather at the same volume.

Also, many people here use the Global EQ for adjusting at the sound check. If the room or the PA (or both) are affecting your EQ, that is an easy way to globally affect the EQ of all your presets without altering them.
 
Ionut Covaciu said:
I thought that using studio monitors will help you get a "more to reality" tone because of the flat response frequency wise. I allways thought that creating your tone through a PA system will alterate the frequencies and that can trick your ear because of the so called non flat frequency response. Or am i wrong?
Click to expand...

FOH systems should be flat, and venues should all have good acoustics, and sound engineers should know/care enough to get the "best" results with whatever they've got to work with, but sadly that isn't often the case.

Often times a guitarist home monitor speakers, FRFR monitor etc has far, far, better specs than whatever 20 year old off-brand "we just bought it because it had 15" woofers and it was loud/cheap" PA many venues run.


We attribute a lot to FM, which is true to a point, but a massive chunk is that if your listening to quality monitors at home, at volume, in a well treat room, and then playing that same patch back in a big reverbant venue, though some craptastic 2000 model PA, and with a sound guy who cranks the lows, and who added some extra subs so it sounds "huge" even though the bass response is absurd, well then your patch is going to sound like garbage, as is anything else run through the system.

Especially if you play metal, your likely going to be in crappier venues, where volume trumps tone, and cheap was probably the name of the game. Best you can do its make some tweak at soundcheck, and remember that 99% of the audience really doesn't care about your tone
 
Generally speaking, a FOH system is usually louder so that's affecting the sound as well. Do what I said before and tweak at the volume required for the application for each copy of that preset. I even name the preset accordingly:
Dirty lead-studio
Dirty lead-live
Dirty lead-practice
 
Merry Christmas!

That is what i will do. I will create at least 2 patches with 2 different eq. And i will also add post processing from the mixer eq in the rehearsing room as well in live. I know a band that has some kind of rack mounted mixer by Behringer. They also use Axe Fx II and Kemper. They are using the same patch in recording as well on live gig. It sounds the same even at high volumes and it sounds the same on every PA that they played. Anyway, all the info that you gaved me is very welcomed and i will look up to that
 
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