High-Gain with Low Output Pickups (String Pull)

LiechtensteinGuy

LiechtensteinGuy

New Member
First of all, to give you the right expectations from this thread: I'm a heavy metal guitarist. I either play a FAS Modern with massive pre-amp distortion or a Hiwatt with very low gain and full volume for my cleans. This topic is about different outputs of pickups, how the Axe reacts with low output and string pull.

I always played high output passive pickups because I like the way they drive a tube amp (analog or digital) into distortion. Roll off the volume knob and the sound gets a lot cleaner. Down-side of those high output pickups with their strong magnets is - for me at least - the very noticable string pull. Here's where the advantage of active pickups comes in: The pickups inside the cover have a very low output with weak magnets and pull much less on the strings. With the pre-amp, they push the amps heavily and distort early. I don't like the available active pickups, but maybe this idea can be simulated on the Axe.

Now to the actual question: Does it make sense to use low output passive pickups with the Axe FX for high-gain sounds? My thoughts are: many amps have so much gain anyways and don't need to be pushed to the edge. Instead of using a pickup with an output of 600 mV or more, i could use one with 200-300. I would still have tons of gain and less string pull/more sustain.

What are your thoughts and experiences on that topic? (also: what's your main genre and how much output do your pickups have; just to give us an idea.)
 
in my experience, high gain amps don't need high output pickups... high output pickups were designed to drive older amps that didn't have as much gain. You can get low output pickups to crush now if you want... heck my strat with single coils I can get overly distorted real quick.

I mainly play modern rock/ 80's 90's... my favorite pickup is my Tom Anderson H2+, good output, not too much.
 
I have BKP Aftermaths in my guitar and they are medium to high output passives. No issues with string pull for me, I also play metal and use the FAS modern as my main amp. I run in the input gain LOW, like 1.6. The compressor and drive I have running before it is just control some of the low end bloom/tightness. The axe fx has plenty of options so I dont think you'll have an issue with getting the amount of gain or sustain from any of the high gain amps. I personally use the FAS modern for rhythm stuff, and just recently switched to using the Citrus amp for my leads.
 
I have lower output pickups in some of my guitars. Usually to compensate I use a boost (tubescreamer) in front of the amp. Level at 10, distortion at 1, tone at 6. I find it saturates the tone and sort of replicates higher output pickups.
 
I've used all kinds of pickups with varying degrees of output with the Axe for high gain metal tones. For me, I've come the conclusion that output doesn't make much difference. With lower output pickups, I just increase the drive in the amp/drive block. With high output pickups, I've never noticed any negative effects of increased string pull.

When I choose pickups, I don't really pay much attention to output anymore except for the fact that I don't want the bridge PU to overpower the neck PU and vice versa. I choose pickups now based on their overall tone (EQ) and overall feel.
 
With the Axe, it's way less of an issue because you can apply as much boost/cut/eq/compression/expansion as you want before the amplifier anyway that you can make just about any pickup sound like any other one.

I do think there's a fairly distinct difference though between low input level/high gain and vice versa though. All you have to do is play with the controls of any amp in the Axe (or any real amp) with both an input gain and drive level knob to see that.
 
Guete Aabig

No, you definitely don't need high output pickups. In my opinion, pickups with nice compression sound best with overdriven/distorted amps - a lot of them are not high output at all. EMG-pickups - I know, they are active - do not have a lot of output. They only compress a lot, which gives you the impression of more output. I personally use mid- to high-output pickups for metal (Seymour Duncan SH-4, SH-5, SH-8; DiMarzio CrunchLab, Norton). It also depends on your guitar, technique etc. As long as the pickups are not too close to the strings, string pull won't be an issue. Just use a suited amp-model (experiment a bit) and appropriate settings to get the desired tone.
What models are you talking about, by the way? And where do you get 600 mV-pickups? That's insanely high. Even the DiMarzio X2N, which is considered the highest output passive pickup of DiMarzio, "only" has 510 mV according to their webpage.

Grüess us em Kanton Aargau.
 
i prefer lower/medium output pups just because they are more open and clean up better. the highest output pup i have is a duncan JB. with a tool like the Axe you don't HAVE to have high output pups to hit it harder, it can go to insane levels of gain and compression on it's own.

that being said, if i were doing heavier music i'd def have more aggressive pups, but not because the Axe needs them in any way.
 
Thanks for all your feedback! I worry less about string pull now, but I got curious... I'm going to order a low-output PU; just one for the bridge to compare the character... Maybe an SD '59 or a DM Fred? Sound like a fun experiment to me. :)

@Stillbruch: Du häsch rächt. My output estimation was probably not the best. Also, DiMarzio seems to be one of the few companies comparing output of pickups using mV, so that sounds suspicious. Schönä!
 
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Yeah as a general statement lower output pickups tend to be easier to clean up and sound more open. However, I have BKP Painkillers (some of the highest output pickups through the company) and regularly get some of the nicest cleans I've ever gotten out of a guitar. So it's all about how you respond to the gear, I guess. I've got a SD JB in my strat, and I'm not really a huge fan of how it sounds in that guitar. It's not TERRIBLE, but I prefer the sound of my BRJ 7 any day.
 
I use moderately hot pups
the lowest being a PAF Pro, the hotter end being a Bulldog Extremist [which is about as hot as a Breed]
I've no probs with clean or driven tones [I live in the hi-gain end of things]

if you're having string pull probs, your pups may be a little on the high side
 
Doesn't the axe fx input trim make varying pickup out moot?

I use Alumitone humbuckers, which are high output passive pickups with little pull.
 
The output strength of a pickup won't effect the string pull as far as the hotter winds go, that's all in the magnets in the pickups' stronger magnets do increase the output ,a lot of high output pickups use ceramic magnets which are the strongest pull , the A5 ,etc! with stronger magnet you just have to lower the pickup height till the undesired string pull effects are gone! I haven't had problems with string pull exept for 3 pickup guitars especially strats which will do it with stock pickups , usually have to keep them at least 1/8 in away from the strings minimum unless they are A2's!
 
Dimarzio Dominion would be a great option.

Moderate output metal pickups designed for Lamb of God. For metal, you want a tight attack from the pickup if it's lower in output.
 
that's a good point about the magnets...
I've never like ceramics.. sure they riff like a beast, but when you solo with them they get all shrill..
Alnico 4's or less are sweeter sounding but less focused.. so they make for nice soloing tones but start losing the edge for the riffing..
personally I go for Alnico5 [in my Bulldog pups] cos they seem to work best overall
 
clarky said:
that's a good point about the magnets...
I've never like ceramics.. sure they riff like a beast, but when you solo with them they get all shrill..
Alnico 4's or less are sweeter sounding but less focused.. so they make for nice soloing tones but start losing the edge for the riffing..
personally I go for Alnico5 [in my Bulldog pups] cos they seem to work best overall
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I would agree!!
 
I too prefer low -> medium output pickups since pretty much any preamp/device/amp has more than enough gain to put any pickup right over the top if you need to. For a humbucker I like the Pearly Gates/59 PAF variants; I have an SSV+ in my Suhr which is their version of a slightly hotter PAF and very much like it vs the way hotter stock SSH+.

I find lower output pickups, be it singles or humbuckers, just sound better and have a lot more character vs high output pickups. Hot pickups don't work as well for me with the guitar volume control either; sometimes you just can't clean them up enough without getting major tone suckage...

As well, I have no problem getting tight, saturated, articulate hi-gain tones out of a low-ish output single coil or humbucker with the II; more than enough gain on tap in many of the amps to get ya there...
 
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RDH said:
The output strength of a pickup won't effect the string pull as far as the hotter winds go, that's all in the magnets in the pickups' stronger magnets do increase the output ,a lot of high output pickups use ceramic magnets which are the strongest pull , the A5 ,etc! with stronger magnet you just have to lower the pickup height till the undesired string pull effects are gone!
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^ Completely agree and this is a key point. String pull is only affected by the strength of the magnets and their proximity to the strings.

It's important to keep in mind that magnetic field strength falls off exponentially with distance from the magnet. So even a very small change in pickup height can have a big effect on how much string pull you're getting.

I'd highly recommend tweaking your pickup height before you go to the trouble of changing pickups, especially if you already like the sound of the high output passives you're using.
 
@Strato & Leo: That's a really good point. Another aspect I didn't think about (there are so many! D:). I'll give it a try. Might be hard to "measure" though. Is that something guitar shops do?
 
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