Hi gain chug

T

Tim Staddon

Member
I’ve got a monster hi gain tone but looking to tighten up the attack on single note palm muting. Do I need to add a compressor or change something to do with the pick attack or sensitivity . So many settings and as a newbie it’s all so much to learn.hard to explain but just more chug. Cheers one and all
 
In the amp block on the dynamics tab turn input dynamics up to 3-6. Change out comp type to gain enhancer and turn out compression to 2. Speaker tab take speaker thump up to 5. I have more ideas but try that and let me know if it's the right direction.
 
Tim Staddon said:
I’ve got a monster hi gain tone but looking to tighten up the attack on single note palm muting. Do I need to add a compressor or change something to do with the pick attack or sensitivity . So many settings and as a newbie it’s all so much to learn.hard to explain but just more chug. Cheers one and all
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if you’re pushing the power amp section…

AKA seeing headroom meter in axe edit go to 0.0 db mostly

Go to power amp page and turn to lower values of Supply Sag (~0.1-2)and B+ time constant (1-15 ms ) to your taste

Beware of setting too low values for what I mentioned, it can cause audible ghost notes


Or simply cut / lower bass going into the amp block

Using EQ in the amp block (input eq)

Or adding a Filter or PEQ block before the amp block
 
ApocalypticKatana said:
if you’re pushing the power amp section…

AKA seeing headroom meter in axe edit go to 0.0 db mostly

Go to power amp page and turn to lower values of Supply Sag (~0.1-2)and B+ time constant (1-15 ms ) to your taste

Beware of setting too low values for what I mentioned, it can cause audible ghost notes


Or simply cut / lower bass going into the amp block

Using EQ in the amp block (input eq)

Or adding a Filter or PEQ block before the amp block
Click to expand...
Or OP could just turn down the master volume and compensate with the level…
 
Great tips everyone, would also highly recommend adding a Multiband Compressor.

Here's Leon explaining it better than I can.



Other than that, I like to use something like a 5150, slap a TS808 or the Horizon Precision Drive in front of it and.. happy chugging!
 
Saarang Narayan said:
Or OP could just turn down the master volume and compensate with the level…
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That’s a relatively simpler way aswell sure.

But my way and your way has its pros and cons.

My way is surgical yours is general.

Assuming OP is pushing power amp aswell since we’re talking high gain..

Your possible “cons” of your way.

Loss of dynamics, think that EVH “nyaw” vocal sound.

Less overdrive from power amp.

Less speaker drive interaction.

When I say “cons” to yours I’m assuming OP would want more power amp overdrive and speaker drive/interaction for high gain.

Many ways to skin a cat.

I recognise your way of simplicity and my incentive was to show the new guy new optios in the possibilities in Fractal land.
 
ApocalypticKatana said:
That’s a relatively simpler way aswell sure.

But my way and your way has its pros and cons.

My way is surgical yours is general.

Assuming OP is pushing power amp aswell since we’re talking high gain..

Your possible “cons” of your way.

Loss of dynamics, think that EVH “nyaw” vocal sound.

Less overdrive from power amp.

Less speaker drive interaction.

When I say “cons” to yours I’m assuming OP would want more power amp overdrive and speaker drive/interaction for high gain.

Many ways to skin a cat, I recognise your way of simplicity and my incentive was to show the new guy new option in the possibilities in Fractal land.
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I guess it’s a bit of a difference of opinion here. Tight and poweramp distortion don’t go together in my opinion.

At this point I’d be interested to know what amp OP is using.
 
Saarang Narayan said:
I guess it’s a bit of a difference of opinion here. Tight and poweramp distortion don’t go together in my opinion.

At this point I’d be interested to know what amp OP is using.
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I am assuming he’s pushing the power amp as he did say “monster high gain” which I would bet and lean towards that he/she is pushing that power amp section.

Of course I could be wrong , he could be using a drive and not push the power amp section and it sounds “monster high gain”.

OP it would help if you share your preset and we could all help you in our own way.
 
There's a whole bunch of mad scientist speculation going on in this thread...

Rule #1 for OP: You don't need to adjust advanced settings at all to get the tone you want.

Since you're new to Fractal, forget they exist for now. The most significant factor contributing to tightness of a tone is how much the bass frequencies from your guitar are being distorted. Consider this first before resorting to anything else.

How do you control that? Its simple. Use an EQ before the amp block and attenuate the bass going into the amp. Put a filter block to the left of your amp block and set it to highpass/low cut and then start rolling off those low frequencies. The more you cut, the tighter the tone will be. Lots of high gain folks seem to like the slope to start around 200hz. If you cut too much you'll end up with a weak tone so adjust to taste and don't be afraid to experiment.

Other things to consider:
  • Too much gain can exacerbate looseness.
  • Master volume too high causes looseness.
  • Mesa Mark-series amps have the EQ before the gain stage. Too much bass causes looseness.

Avoid distorting the bass too much and you're gold.
 
JustinBourdeau said:
The most significant factor contributing to tightness of a tone is how much the bass frequencies from your guitar are being distorted. Consider this first before resorting to anything else.

How do you control that? Its simple. Use an EQ before the amp block and attenuate the bass going into the amp. Put a filter block to the left of your amp block and set it to highpass/low cut and then start rolling off those low frequencies. The more you cut, the tighter the tone will be. Lots of high gain folks seem to like the slope to start around 200hz. If you cut too much you'll end up with a weak tone so adjust to taste and don't be afraid to experiment.
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Make it more simple.

If he is using a regular signal chain of, tube screamer or similar boost style pedal + high gain head.

As Saarang said, mess with with tone knob on the boost being used.

And instead of using a filter on top of it, simply adjust the low cut in the drive pedal itself, no need to add another block for the filter. Same thing as using a newer metal boost pedal these days that have all these controls on them.

And like you said, lower MV and less gain is a good start too. The MV can be a little high on many models in the Axe. Also lots of models have an insane amount of gain, like the FAS skullcrusher model, I never need the gain above 3 on that one.
 
cole lewis said:
Also lots of models have an insane amount of gain, like the FAS skullcrusher model, I never need the gain above 3 on that one.
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This is a really important point. Sometimes having the gain below 1 (for instance, Modern II) is almost too much if using a boost in front of the amp. Most amps I use barely ever have the gain above 3. Same goes for master volume. Most 6L6-based amps sound better (at least to me) with MV between 2.50-3.50.
 
To each their own,

as far as I’m concerned giving someone an absolute “Rule #1…” will limit their potential to understand how the whole signal chain as a whole works.

There are no rules to abide by, do what works to achieve the result you want in Fractal land.

Know when to zoom in and out , AKA go to Tone/ideal and/or any of the pages in the amp block.

-----

What’s so complex about digitally turning down the bass knob VS turning down supply sag to achieve the result?

The underlying ideas are different sure but at the end of the day you’re just turning down a knob to achieve the wanted - tighter chug result.

Not saying you guys are wrong, again many ways to skin a cat.
 
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Pick attack or Djentyness is usually found in the upper mids I think Copper has a vid to increase pick attack boost are 2500 to 2900 range every guitar might be slightly different but that’s the range


The other trick that very popular with modern hi gain is the cold bias , basically when you bias the tubes colder you get a much tighter and stiffer power section.
5150s do this
 
ApocalypticKatana said:
as far as I’m concerned giving someone an absolute “Rule #1…” will limit their potential to understand how the whole signal chain as a whole works.

There are no rules to abide by, do what works to achieve the result you want in Fractal land.
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You don't NEED TO adjust advanced parameters is a 100% true statement. You are reading it as NEVER TOUCH ADVANCED PARAMETERS OR DIE BY MY SWORD. Thats not what Justin or I am saying.

The point here, is to get the OP to a starting point. As in, say he has experience with a setup every metal guitarist should know of. Some kind of boost pedal. Some kind of high gain head like a 5150. A good mesa 4x12. If you can not make your guitar sound tight with the normal settings, something is going wrong with your signal chain somewhere, or as one person stated, your playing or even something like way too large strings. Something is off.

None of us have any clue what his signal chain is. He also asked does he NEED to use a compressor, again the answer to that is, no. You do not NEED to.
 
cole lewis said:
You don't NEED TO adjust advanced parameters is a 100% true statement. You are reading it as NEVER TOUCH ADVANCED PARAMETERS OR DIE BY MY SWORD. Thats not what Justin or I am saying.

The point here, is to get the OP to a starting point. As in, say he has experience with a setup every metal guitarist should know of. Some kind of boost pedal. Some kind of high gain head like a 5150. A good mesa 4x12. If you can not make your guitar sound tight with the normal settings, something is going wrong with your signal chain somewhere, or as one person stated, your playing or even something like way too large strings. Something is off.

None of us have any clue what his signal chain is. He also asked does he NEED to use a compressor, again the answer to that is, no. You do not NEED to.
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I never said you have or need to adjust "advanced" parameters , it was a suggestion.

regarding that statement, read what I said there are no rules ,

whenever I hear someone say 100% truth , just shows closed-mindedness…

"You don't NEED TO adjust advanced parameters is a 100% true statement"

Well to that I could say

"You don't NEED TO adjust basic parameters is a 100% true statement"

Just silly imo

if you want him to conform and sound like everybody else be my guest through using "normal" settings whatever that may mean in detail.

I’m saying…

just turn knobs on other tabs in the amp block or other blocks who cares if it's called advanced or basic, if it does the job great.

my suggestion was simply turn down supply sag parameter

There is nothing advanced about turning down a digital knob.

——

My point was to get him to use the supply sag and b+ time constant

Your point was yours

Both are valid ways to tighten up pick attack and chug

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and in my original first post I've even suggested cutting bass through multiple means

I never commented about his use of compressors as I've suggested other means

ApocalypticKatana said:
if you’re pushing the power amp section…

AKA seeing headroom meter in axe edit go to 0.0 db mostly

Go to power amp page and turn to lower values of Supply Sag (~0.1-2)and B+ time constant (1-15 ms ) to your taste

Beware of setting too low values for what I mentioned, it can cause audible ghost notes


Or simply cut / lower bass going into the amp block

Using EQ in the amp block (input eq)

Or adding a Filter or PEQ block before the amp block
Click to expand...

PS @cole lewis this is nothing personal just interesting to see other people views on this topic, looking forward to your reply
 
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