Help with Solid State Power Amp choice????

[t0aj15]

I'm using a Carvin DCML3000 to power 2 4x12s. I had a Carvin DCML 1540 first and it was being pushed pretty hard. I can say that when it was being taxed it couldn't deliver. I noticed when I was playing some heavy distorted rhythm stuff and tried to drop in a palm mute it wouldn't have anything behind it like it just ran out of breath. So I figured I'd move up the ladder to the next the DCML3000 andeverything sounds great I never run it anywhere near max and with the extra power i have plenty of headroom and no lack of push when i need it. You can always have more power and not use it but when you have too little there's nothing you can do. I'd say 500-600 watts is a great way to replace a 100 watt tube head.

What is the ohm rating on your cabs? The reason I ask is that I'm using a DCM-1540L and the rating on my cabs is 4 ohms which allows the amp to deliver 750 watts per side and there is absolutely NO shortage of power, there is more then enough power & headroom to spare. It sounds to me like your cabs may be 16 ohm cabs.

 

[<MACHINE>]

I'm using a Carvin DCML3000 to power 2 4x12s. I had a Carvin DCML 1540 first and it was being pushed pretty hard. I can say that when it was being taxed it couldn't deliver. I noticed when I was playing some heavy distorted rhythm stuff and tried to drop in a palm mute it wouldn't have anything behind it like it just ran out of breath. So I figured I'd move up the ladder to the next the DCML3000 andeverything sounds great I never run it anywhere near max and with the extra power i have plenty of headroom and no lack of push when i need it. You can always have more power and not use it but when you have too little there's nothing you can do. I'd say 500-600 watts is a great way to replace a 100 watt tube head.

Not doubting you nor being combative...but that's incredible that 425watts @ 8ohms wasn't enough power. Are your cabs 16oms...or do you play loud enough to kill animals at 1000 yards? Hows you hearing :shock: Kidding, but In comparison my QSC PLX-1104 running 325watts into an 8ohm cab per side was WAY louder than tolerable...and never lost it's composure. Strange :?:

 

[rsf1977]

no offense taken lol. well i play in a pretty loud metal band and we usually play small venues where they don't mic the guitar cabs so I have to care the room volume matching a miced kick and snare so sometimes it needs to get loud. Now the Carvin 1540L sometimes would be close to limiting and i could feel it in the sound giving out when it should be pumping like your trying to lift a weight after you have 100lbs strapped to you arms. If you play mellow stuff you probably wont need it but i'd always error on the side of having too much because you just don't have to turn it up as loud it's not going to hurt anything

 

[rsf1977]

I'm using a Carvin DCML3000 to power 2 4x12s. I had a Carvin DCML 1540 first and it was being pushed pretty hard. I can say that when it was being taxed it couldn't deliver. I noticed when I was playing some heavy distorted rhythm stuff and tried to drop in a palm mute it wouldn't have anything behind it like it just ran out of breath. So I figured I'd move up the ladder to the next the DCML3000 andeverything sounds great I never run it anywhere near max and with the extra power i have plenty of headroom and no lack of push when i need it. You can always have more power and not use it but when you have too little there's nothing you can do. I'd say 500-600 watts is a great way to replace a 100 watt tube head.

What is the ohm rating on your cabs? The reason I ask is that I'm using a DCM-1540L and the rating on my cabs is 4 ohms which allows the amp to deliver 750 watts per side and there is absolutely NO shortage of power, there is more then enough power & headroom to spare. It sounds to me like your cabs may be 16 ohm cabs.

One of my cabs was 16ohms and that was the one that was really taxing it. I'm really talking about having enough watts rather then saying the DCML3000 is the amp you need. For me I like it because some events i can't bring my own cab and i may need to use a house back line 4x12 that's wired at 16ohms. So I know with the DCML3000 I'm covered when that happens.

 

[Tremonti]

Ok...bought and tried an ART SLA-2 and used in stereo. Was ok...but sending it back to Sweetwater.....me Mesa 2:90 just has more 3-D type huge thick sound....I just like all the headroom too. The ART wasnt bad...but in comparison there was no comparison. If I had never heard the Mesa I probably would have thought the ART was great.....

There is a reason that Tom King uses tubes in his design and why Line 6 has a Spider Valve in my opinion. They aren't needed but I do think they add something magical.....like unicorn dust :lol:

 

[richedie]

Get one of the very high powered Carvins(as good as Mesa) or stick to the stereo tube amp which you really can't beat. A tube power amp will have more punch and girth no matter what. Funny though...my old Line 6 Vetta had one of the best SS power amps I have ever used. Not sure what they did, but they nailed it. That thing sounded huge.

 

[JGR]

A tube power amp will have more punch and girth no matter what. quote]

Only when you are comparing them to the somewhat anemic 1 and 2 space SS amps. I've owned the VHT 2/50/2, Mesa 2:90, as well as a pair of 400 WATT Aguilar DB728's - I can assure you that my Crest CA9 and SWR Power 750's can crush them in terms of punch and girth (the DB728's and Power 750's were closer in comparison). My Tech 21 PE400 can also easily match/if not exceed the bigger stereo tube power amps at stupid volumes. All SS amps are not created equal... input gain structure, transformers, power supply robustness, etc. all play an inportant part in the equation.

 

[<MACHINE>]

A tube power amp will have more punch and girth no matter what.

Only when you are comparing them to the somewhat anemic 1 and 2 space SS amps. I've owned the VHT 2/50/2, Mesa 2:90, as well as a pair of 400 WATT Aguilar DB728's - I can assure you that my Crest CA9 and SWR Power 750's can crush them in terms of punch and girth (the DB728's and Power 750's were closer in comparison). My Tech 21 PE400 can also easily match/if not exceed the bigger stereo tube power amps at stupid volumes. All SS amps are not created equal... input gain structure, transformers, power supply robustness, etc. all play an inportant part in the equation.

All that...plus: the punch and girth should come from the AxeFx (if that's what your powering). There wasn't even a micro gram of punch or girth missing from any of the SS power amps I've compared to any of the tube power amps. SS: Carvin DCM-1000, DCM-1204; QSC PLX-1104. Tube: VHT 2-50-2, 2-90-2; Mesa 2:90; Peavey 60/60; Randall RT2/50. They could all easily be made to sound identical to each other with the proper tweaking in the AxeFx.

 

[Tremonti]

A tube power amp will have more punch and girth no matter what.

Only when you are comparing them to the somewhat anemic 1 and 2 space SS amps. I've owned the VHT 2/50/2, Mesa 2:90, as well as a pair of 400 WATT Aguilar DB728's - I can assure you that my Crest CA9 and SWR Power 750's can crush them in terms of punch and girth (the DB728's and Power 750's were closer in comparison). My Tech 21 PE400 can also easily match/if not exceed the bigger stereo tube power amps at stupid volumes. All SS amps are not created equal... input gain structure, transformers, power supply robustness, etc. all play an inportant part in the equation.

All that...plus: the punch and girth should come from the AxeFx (if that's what your powering). There wasn't even a micro gram of punch or girth missing from any of the SS power amps I've compared to any of the tube power amps. SS: Carvin DCM-1000, DCM-1204; QSC PLX-1104. Tube: VHT 2-50-2, 2-90-2; Mesa 2:90; Peavey 60/60; Randall RT2/50. They could all easily be made to sound identical to each other with the proper tweaking in the AxeFx.

I have to disagree....my ears couldn't get the solid state to do magic that the tube poweramp did. Each their own....

 

[JGR]

I have to disagree....my ears couldn't get the solid state to do magic that the tube poweramp did. Each their own....

Did you try any other SS amps other than the ART? While it works for some folks, it is a budget unit, and will not be able to compete with some of the higher quality, more powerful units out there, period, especially if you want to crank it. I never understand while folks will drop big $$ on an Axe, then skimp on a cheap SS power amp. It's like buying a performance car and running it with cheap gas and tires. Then they swing back to the other extreme based on their false conclusions about SS and spend big $$$ on tube amps with the hassle of weight, reliability, and tubes. Cliff did a great job modeling the other half of the amp (the power section) - you just need quality power to deliver the goods. A good SS amp with the Axe plus quality cabs will crush any tube powered rig to bits. Why are the Reactors tube powered then? Because they company was around before Fractal, and Harry Kolbe is a tube guy. It also made sense in the beginning since they were making products to work with the Line 6 POD which certainly needed a lot of help. Any literature saying tube power is needed with the Axe is pure marketing BS, period. I view it as a liability, and would be much more inclined to go that route if they would put some a good SS poweramp it them.

 

[Spoons]

I think this discussion could go on forever as to what's the best power amps, there is too much that is directly related to an individuals personal experience along with likes and dislikes.

Simple generalizations that have worked well for me:
1. General rule for me is a 100 watt tube power amp is roughly equal to 2000-3000 watt solid state power amp, depending on the manufacturers of each.

2. Solid state amps are specifically designed in such a way so they are extremely "transparent" and will amplify sound with a LOT of headroom and without noticeably "coloring" the sound.

3. Most FRFR speakers are designed in such a way as to not distort the signal that is sent to it and send out a "full range" of frequencies as long as the speakers are used within the recommended specifications.

4. Guitar speakers and cabinets are specifically designed to color tone in a very specific way!!!

5. Guitar power amps are specifically designed to color tone in a very specific way!!!

The above generalizations make my choices reasonably simple.

Condition 1: Using Axe-Fx and going direct to board, using power amp sim, using cabinet sims.
No power amp or speaker cabinet is needed, that is all controlled by the PA system and your personal PA monitor.
If stage volume is needed see following conditions.

Condition 2: Using Axe-Fx, NOT using power amp sim, NOT using cabinet sims.
Use a guitar tube power amp of your choice and a standard guitar speaker cabinet of your choice - choice depends on the sound you want.

Condition 3: Using Axe-Fx, using power amp sim, not using cabinet sims.
Use a Solid state amp (or completely transparent tube power amp) and a standard guitar speaker cabinet of your choice - choice depends on the sound you want.

Condition 4: Using Axe-Fx, using power amp sim, using cabinet sims.
Use a Solid state power amp (or completely transparent tube power amp) and FRFR speakers.

Condition 5: Using Axe-Fx, NOT using power amp sim, using cabinet sims.
I think this condition doesn't make much sense.

As we all know, solid state amps and tube amps are not and never will be created equal, PERIOD!!! Some tube amps are MUCH better at "transparency" than others, some solid state amps have more headroom than others. I own a Carvin tube powered TS100 power amp; it is very reliable, has loads of headroom and it is VERY transparent until you get the volume(s) turned up to about 75% or higher and truthfully the coloring of the tone past that point is most likely coming from pushing the speakers hard. I also own a couple of Carvin DCM series solid state power amps and get the superb transparency, loads of headroom, high quality sound amplification, and low maintenance. I have begun to turn my back on guitar tube amplification, probably forever.

The key is to figure out exactly how YOU want to amplify your Axe-Fx and get the components that work best for you and fall within your budget. I'm guessing that since you are already an Axe-Fx owner, you can probably find a way to save for GOOD power amp and speaker equipment components to meet your needs. Just like with tube powered guitar amplifiers, you might have to try a couple of things before you get exactly what you want. Generally speaking, just like with the Axe-Fx you get what you pay for.

 

[<MACHINE>]

I have to disagree....my ears couldn't get the solid state to do magic that the tube poweramp did. Each their own....

I hear ya.

It isn't necessarily easy to get that magic, especially with it being different for each individual taste in tone. But I strongly believe it's just an un-thought/un-tried/"hidden" parameter away. I don't think I'm special in the tweaking dept., I just adjust everything/anything until "magic" pops out. It IS in there.