Help With Scene Change Pop

guitarcal

guitarcal

Inspired
I need some assistance from the experts here. Preset and custom IR are attached.

I am experiencing a pop between scene changes mainly switching from scenes 3 / 4 to scene 2 or scene 3 / 4 to scene 1. Scenes 3 /4 are heavier in reverb and delay, so maybe that is why the pop is so prevalent? I boosted the reverb and delay levels, so you should be able to hear it.

I am running v21 public beta 2 on the Axe FX 3 gen 1, but this issue was happening well before this latest firmware update. CPU usage hovers around 78%. Issue occurs with direct headphones out, or monitoring through usb interface.

Also, if I switch over to a different preset with similar pedal routing, the pop goes away, so it seems to be something about this preset.

Let me know if I need to provide additional details.

Thank you!
 

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@mwd thank you for the link. I don't believe this is the issue as all reverb and delay channels involved are set to "mute in" on bypass. They are all ran in parallel to the main signal chain. I just confirmed the "mute in" on bypass setting through fractool, but I will triple check on the Axe FX this evening.
 
The first thing to look at is what blocks are changing during those scene changes.

Which blocks are changing channel? Which blocks are being enabled?

Do you have any Scene Controllers assigned?

Are you changing scene levels in the Output block mixer?
 
You will need to (temporarily) remove the Global Links and re-export the preset. Those blocks will use the saved global blocks in the receiving unit, or as in my case, set all of the parameters in all four channels to their minimum values. As I don't have any global blocks saved.

Makes it impossible to troubleshoot the issue(s). There are a lot of bypassed blocks that switch channels in some scenes. Maybe intentional?
 
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Moke said:
You will need to (temporarily) remove the Global Links and re-export the preset. Those blocks will use the saved global blocks in the receiving unit, or as in my case, set all of the parameters in all four channels to their minimum values. As I don't have any global blocks saved.

Makes it impossible to troubleshoot the issue(s). There are a lot of bypassed blocks that switch channels in some scenes. Maybe intentional?
Click to expand...

I've reattached the patch without global blocks, sorry about that.

Not necessarily intentional to have bypassed blocks switching scenes. Would it help to clean some of that up?
 
unix-guy said:
Which blocks are changing channel? Which blocks are being enabled?

Do you have any Scene Controllers assigned?

Are you changing scene levels in the Output block mixer?
Click to expand...

Most of the ambient type blocks change channels or are enabled / disabled.

No scene controllers are assigned and scene levels aren’t changing in the output mixer block.

I started troubleshooting tonight by rebuilding the preset from scratch, and then removing all ambient type effects.

After removing all ambient type effects, I am still noticing a faint “static like” pop. It’s subtle, mostly it happens on scene changes, and sometimes it happens just when playing chords, or hitting single notes hard.

I wonder if the ambient effects such as the spring reverb were amplifying this faint “static like” pop?

I tested using headphones out from the axe fx iii as well as xlr out and spdif out to my Apollo twin through my headphones. Also tested different guitar and cable and disconnected the usb cable to my computer for a few tests.

Any thoughts? This is noticed most during scene changes where lots o verb and delay are removed, or very faintly when playing without all the effects.
 
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unix-guy said:
If Reverb is changing types with a channel change that can definitely introduce artifacts.
Click to expand...

Would you have any suggestions to reduce the static pop?

I think the higher level reverbs and delays are boosting and reverberating the pop which makes it more audible. I imagine this would be the same if I were running a traditional amp and pedal board.
 
guitarcal said:
Would you have any suggestions to reduce the static pop?

I think the higher level reverbs and delays are boosting and reverberating the pop which makes it more audible. I imagine this would be the same if I were running a traditional amp and pedal board.
Click to expand...
I think the first thing is to identify the source and resolve it if possible...

I've not been in front of my Axe Fx for several days so no opportunity to check your preset.

You can try to identify where it's coming from by removing a block at a time...
 
guitarcal said:
I've reattached the patch without global blocks, sorry about that.

Not necessarily intentional to have bypassed blocks switching scenes. Would it help to clean some of that up?
Click to expand...
Working away from home till Thursday night. If it hasn't been figured out by then, I will take a look.
 
I took a quick look at it last night. There is a lot going on here. Maybe too much?? Without your FC settings, It's a little difficult to determine what is intentional.

Here are my thoughts/opinions....
  • Looks like a 'kitchen sink' type of preset, setup like a stomp box board?
  • Some blocks have 'Scene Ignore on. So it's hard to tell which channel, and which scene(s) you intend to use them in.
  • Lots of 'Control Switch' assignments. Which overrides the parameter, making it tough to see what happens without having all of those switches setup on my end.
  • A lot of multiple Delay and multiple Reverb channel switching using different models, and different 'Level' parameter values. Causing volume changes of the 'tails' when switching scenes/channels.
  • Two (parallel) Reverb blocks routed in series, sometimes running at the same time seems a bit odd? Using the two reverb blocks (in parallel) when switching between different models (instead of channels) would make more sense.
  • Some unnecessary parallel routing (IMO). But... making all of the Delay and Reverb channels have the same 'Level' parameter value (-6.00 for parallel, roughly a 50% mix) and using the 'Input Gain' parameter to set the actual effect levels will help with a more consistent change between channels. As the 'Tails' levels will be unaltered.
  • Also, using the same models with different 'Time', 'Feedback', and 'Input Gain' values will make changes even smoother.
  • If you really really need four different Delay models, use four instances of Delays instead of channels.
  • I have a feeling that this preset could be trimmed way down and still give you what you need? But making these artistic decisions is difficult for anyone other than the artist. Especially in this setting, A real-time in-person or Zoom session would be more efficient.
  • "With great power comes great responsibility" Just because you can, doesn't always mean that you should.
There is probably more, but would like to hear your thoughts about the above

Moke
 
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BTW.. I never heard any 'pop' when changing scenes. Just some fairly big level bumps in the Delay and Reverb 'tails'. With all of the Delays and Reverbs bypassed, the scenes changes seemed pretty smooth, as not much else is happening.
 
@Moke Thank you for taking the time to look at my preset in depth, this is excellent feedback! I'm always learning, so let's see if I can simplify. I'll try to address your questions.
  • I do see this setup as a stomp box like board and utilize scenes to control the level of ambience. I play mainly praise and worship, so try to create nice full sounds from the amp, and then make the sound fuller with delay and reverb. Scene ignore allows me to engage a drive pedal and use through all the scenes without having to use Control Switches.
  • Control switches are accomplishing a few things, and each control switch used is only assigned to one task. For example, one of them changes all delay patterns from dotted quarter to quarter. Another changes the output channel to increase / decrease output overall for solos and such.
  • You might have figured it out with your 4th and 6th points, one of my problems may be the delay trails changing volumes as well as the reverb. The goal is to increase the delay volume and duration as I progress through the scenes. I'll try your suggestion your suggestion to adjust the input gain levels while running a -6 level and 50% mix on the delays.
  • I'll move the last reverb block so it is in parallel, great suggestion! I see it as an always on spring reverb delay like you would if it was built into the amp.
  • I'll try using the same delay models to help with scene changes and I am pretty sure I won't need 4 instances of delay. Should be able to utilize 2.
I have some work to do, I'll get to working on this and see what I come up with and will absolutely report back!

Thanks again!
 
"I'll try your suggestion your suggestion to adjust the input gain levels while running a -6 level and 50% mix on the delays."

Keep the 'Mix' value at 100% for parallel effects.

My '50% mix' reference was that a -6.00 dB setting of the 'Level' parameter of a parallel block with a 100% 'Mix' setting is roughly comparable to a 45 to 50% 'Mix' setting of a series block.
 
Moke said:
Keep the 'Mix' value at 100% for parallel effects.

My '50% mix' reference was that a -6.00 dB setting of the 'Level' parameter of a parallel block with a 100% 'Mix' setting is roughly comparable to a 45 to 50% 'Mix' setting of a series block.
Click to expand...

Utilizing Input Gain instead of Level corrected the problem. The vast Level adjustments and pedal type changes between scenes threw everything off.
Thank you for your time and assistance, I learned a lot!
 
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