Headphone Output vs Output1

mvanzant

mvanzant

Member
This may be a dumb question but I'll ask anyway. Should the sound of the output from the headphone be the same as the output from the back of the Axe FXIII Output1 (or Output2)?

The reason I ask is that I have the headphone output going to a pair of Samson Media O-N-E powered studio monitors. They sound great for bedroom use and especially for effect chains that use stereo (delays, etc). The presets that come with the AF3 unit sound great thru this setup. Most of these presets however have just a single output block. The actual reason for this question is that I've purchased presets from third-party sources (who've sounded great on AF2 that I had), but these purchased presets usually have two Output blocks (1 for FOH and 1 to an amp on stage). These purchases presets sound much quieter than the regular presets that come with the unit (in general). I asked the third party about it but he doesn't really notice the difference (but his setup is not the same).

I guess I could try and find some cables to run from the back of the unit on Output 1 to the studio speaker input but not 100% on if I need a special 1/4" cable for that or if speaker or guitar type cables would be ok to use.

Just curious if anyone else on the site uses this type of setup or not? Or if anyone might have any ideas for settings/parameters to check?

Thanks,
Marty
 
The headphone out is not a line output. It's intended to drive headphones so it's expecting that type of impedance load (typically in the 30 to 600 ohm range). The input impedance of your powered monitors is likely somewhere between 10,000 and 1,000,000 ohms. The higher the impedance load, the easier it will be to drive the headphone output into clipping for a given output level. You should be using the rear output jacks to send a line level signal to your monitors as they are intended for exactly that purpose.
 
Thanks all for the input. I actually am experiencing what I think is the opposite problem - my purchased presets (that have an Output 1 and Output 2 block in the chain) sound lower than something like a 'normal' Fractal default preset with only one Output block (ie Dee Cee 30). I know a LOT of parameters can be different on the two presets I'm comparing. However, I'm trying to understand the impact of the two Output blocks on the purchased preset and what impact, if any, it makes in my setup.

I think the easiest and quickest solution might be to just run the output lines from the back of the unit to the studio monitors. If I run lines from the back of Output 1 on the unit, do I just use an instrument cable to go to the studio monitor or do I need some special type of cable? Thanks in advance for the help!
 
Unless part of the signal chain is ONLY run to Output 2, then there should be no impact of having Output 2 in the preset.

Example - if at the end of the chain, it splits and goes to both Output 1 and Output 2.....then Output 1 is not impacted by the presence of Output 2.

Sounds likely that the purchased presets are just dialed in at lower volume. Just turn the amp level up.
 
The dual output blocks in the purchased presets will have no impact on the level going to either output. When you connect to another row on the grid, the signal is copied, so both rows/blocks are getting the same signal level. Like BBN said, most likely the purchased presets are just dialed in a little lower. The factory presets were created several FW versions ago and changes since then have likely also affected the level on many of them as a result. Use the output meter in the OUT block you are using to check your level. Aim for roughly the 0 dB line while playing on the meter when leveling your presets and everything should be kosher.
 
mvanzant said:
I think the easiest and quickest solution might be to just run the output lines from the back of the unit to the studio monitors. If I run lines from the back of Output 1 on the unit, do I just use an instrument cable to go to the studio monitor or do I need some special type of cable? Thanks in advance for the help!
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Why would you think that the headphone output would be appropriate?

I think reviewing the manual, especially p. 4, then ch. 4, will help. I’d also recommend reading the manual for your speakers, especially p.4, to see what connections they recommend. You will need adapters to RCA plugs from whichever type of cable you choose to use, and to confirm the OUT 1 or OUT 2 output DB level is set approximately in the FX3 system preferences.
 
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Thanks all - I've just ordered two FAS humbuster cables so when they get in, I'll give them a try to see if that changes things.
 
I got a set of cables that I ran from the Output 1 L and R to the Studio Monitors. As expected, this sound is drastically lower than when I am running the cable from the headphone output (as mr_fender mentioned earlier) on all presets default and purchased. I guess my dilemma is trying now to get as good a sound and dynamics from the Output 1 rear outputs as the front Headphone output.

I my be incorrect in my thinking that what I would hear in my headphones I would want to hear in my speaker output. I realize the technical differences on ohms, etc between the two outputs but as the Fractal site seems to say 'use your ears' instead of your eyes -- my ears tells me the headphone output sounds better. I am by no means a audio/technical person, just an old guy trying to work the FX3. I seem to be like a monkey trying to run the space shuttle in this example.

Should the 'correct' setup be using the back Output 1 lines and crank the Output 1 level knob on the front to near max to get the similar type of sounds I get with the headphone output and Output level at noon?
 
The way I do it when running this sort of setup is to turn output 1 via Axe FX front panel so that I have a loud yet comfortable level from the headphone output into my headphones. I then set the volume controls on my monitors to roughly match what I get through the headphones without moving anything on the Axe FX III.

When doing this with Adam A5X monitors and Audio Technica ATH-M50X, they don't sound identical. However they are certainly close enough in tone and feel that I'm happy to move between them.

There is no "correct" setup, but if the headphone output sounds "better" to you than Output 1 lines on the back panel through monitors, then it's definitely worth having a look at the monitor setup. I'm not familiar with Samson MediaOne monitors. Which model do you have?

Liam
 
mvanzant said:
Should the 'correct' setup be using the back Output 1 lines and crank the Output 1 level knob on the front to near max to get the similar type of sounds I get with the headphone output and Output level at noon?
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I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect to be able to switch your monitors from the headphone jack to output 1 without needing to adjust the output level. So, yes, you should expect to need to adjust the level. In your case, it sounds like that adjustment is to turn it up. Whether it needs to be near maximum or not depends on your presets, your desired loudness, and your monitors.
 
LiamH said:
I then set the volume controls on my monitors to roughly match what I get through the headphones without moving anything on the Axe FX III.
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Since you have powered monitors, this is a good solution to your issue, which, if I understand, you basically want to have independent control over your levels going to your headphones and your monitors.

Deal with the apparent volume differences in the patches that were originally made on the Axe II the way Mr. Fender said above.
The volumes of Output 1 and the Headphone Out can't be changed independent of one another, so another solution that will give you that flexibility is to simply use Output 2 instead of Output 1 (for your monitors.) Continue to use the Headphone Output for your headphones, and don't use Output 1 at all.

This will also give you the ability to use a Global EQ curve for your headphones, which a lot of guys do to make them flatter, EQ-wise, than they truly are, but won't affect the sound going to your monitors.

You'll probably have to alter your presets a bit, because they'll all need an Out 1 & Out 2 block.
 
Thanks to everyone on the recent input! For LiamH, the monitor models are the Media One 5a (a few years old now - don't think they sell this model currently). But your input on leaving the FXIII level at noon and just turn up volume on monitors is probably the way I will go. This is a pretty easy way to manage this. The Output 1 is set at the default -10db and the monitors expect a -10db input.

Again - thanks to all for the input - this is why I love Axe FX and this forum - great options (almost too many) on the unit and help for old dogs like me thru this site with great and more experienced users!
 
As a full time headphone user, I've found that for me, running the the XLR's out of my FM3's Output 1 into my Cranbourne N22H headpnone amp, sounds better than straight out of the FM3's headphone out. Plus it's more flexible with the extra volume control.
 
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