kisslorand
Experienced
Short college time, huh?
/irony mode off
/irony mode off
I don't think they or even stef would want that record to sound the same as all the others. You gotta remember that KNY had the guitars 8th string dropped to E apart from F# like on the prior album Diamond Eyes. That alone is enough to require tonal reshaping which sort of results in a different overall tone. Here's the catch, in the end they still sound like who they are..., DEFTONES! That's what makes them great I think. Can't really say that about many other well known bands.In my opinion, if we are talking strictly about the amplifier sims only, they I'd say they are 99% there. However amps are such a small percentage of of the overall sound that there is still much room for improvement in other areas. Particularly the stuff between cab and daw. Yeah there's mic and preamp sims, but I have yet to hear anyone's Axe Fx direct in recordings and though "man that really sounds like an amp recorded in a room."
My example would be the Deftones Koi No Yokan album. The first time I heard it, I thought the guitars sounded not quite warm enough but couldn't put my finger on it. Later I find out they said they recorded the whole album though the Axe Fx only. Not that they don't have some awesome sounds on the album, but the "overall" sound wasn't 99% the same as their past records.
You don't think guitars on KNY sounded good?It doesn't matter. Either it sounds good or it doesn't.
I have no idea what you're referring to because I didn't hear it.You don't think guitars on KNY sounded good?
That would mean, that they are different... Which means, the models in the Axe are not yet accurate...
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haha! nice one
+1. I really think people need to do this kind of real life A/B before they are qualified to say how close the modeling is. Taking a guitar sound out of context is not an apples to apples comparison.
Thing is when you look at just gain staging at some guys presets it's clear that some guys have simply not learned how to get what they want out of gear.+1. I really think people need to do this kind of real life A/B before they are qualified to say how close the modeling is. Taking a guitar sound out of context is not an apples to apples comparison.
However I can perfectly happily just plug into my Axe and get results all day long. But sometimes it's big in slop time.
I don't think they or even stef would want that record to sound the same as all the others. You gotta remember that KNY had the guitars 8th string dropped to E apart from F# like on the prior album Diamond Eyes. That alone is enough to require tonal reshaping which sort of results in a different overall tone. Here's the catch, in the end they still sound like who they are..., DEFTONES! That's what makes them great I think. Can't really say that about many other well known bands.
I
When I first got the Axe, it was Quantum 6 firmware. Tonally, amp to amp, the Axe sounded a little different than the Kemper for say a JCM800. Could tweak the Axe (or vice versa) to sound close to the same tonally. It was still a little different, but sounded like a tube amp, maybe not exactly like that amp profile on the Kemper, but who cares if it sounded good. Fell, and I define that as the amalgam of response to pick, sag, touch response, etc, was also a little different on the Axe. So, if we assume that the Kemper is as close to 100% accurate, per all those blind tests, that means the Axe wasn't.
FWIW, this has already happened many times in different forums experiments posts, YT vids, etc. Including the recent experiment under Q6 with Grammy winning artist Larry Mitchell.I think, now, without question, if you did blind a/b tests with the Axe and 'real' amp, players would also have a hard time determining which is which.
Ergo the need to tweak to get them to sound the same. You did see that above, correct?This logic does not hold water at all... as you are assuming
1: All tubes amps of the same make/model are the same sound/feel-wise (i.e. the amp your profile was built from sounds the same as the amp Cliff's model was built from, heck they might not even be biased or tubed the same way even if this was true). So there is no way they could be accurate and sound truly identical. There would HAVE to be variation if they were 100% accurate unless the profile was of one of Cliff's amps and the Axe settings were mapped directly to those used in the profile.
Yes it is based on the assumption, from anecdotal data, that person after person that has taken blind tests of the KPA with the Amp that was profiled, couldn't tell the difference. Yes, have to take that assumption that that constitutes accurate, and if so, then if one can make the Axe model match the KPA profile, we have a transitive connection.2: Your stated assumption that the KPA is as close to 100% accurate as possible is completely unfounded unless you personally have some sort of objective data or metric for this. The Axe, heck the POD2, has been able to fool people in A/B blind tests. Given that the KPA is not a tube amp and you have nothing but anecdotal data (of which many data points to the converse could be supplied) it makes no sense to make the assumption that 1:1 matching to the KPA, which is not the amp being modeled, constitutes a standard for accuracy for the AxeFx model.
They are authentic and u can tweak enough to earn a tone that's indistinguishable between "real or fake". Gore,KNY,& Diamond Eyes were all non-amp albums and yet all sound different. DE was recorded with the AxeFx ultra while needing to reproduce the digital sound, Guitar Rig software was utilized. I saw them live last year and DE sounded exactly like the album only now through AxeFx 2's. Point being, anything can be tweaked enough to sound exactly like anything. It's the sounds we are after that we ain't heard yet...that's the tricky part! LolI don't disagree with most of that. I love all of their records a lot and appreciate the differences. They have changed tunings and numbers of strings between records quite a bit, however Koi No Yokan to me is the one that sounds WAY different. Not that it's bad, but it's just different. So in the context of "is the amp sims 99% accurate?", it makes me want to say no.
I've been trying to justify that stance to myself and I guess the reason I feel that way is that, if the amp sims were extremely accurate, it should be almost difficult to get a not-authentic sound, particularly with a big time band that has access to a professional studio and engineers. I know that's not a perfect way to think about it, but it seems like too big of a coincidence that the one album that they recorded through the Axe FX sounds so different to me.