Harsh presets at high volume

Dillonski

Dillonski

Inspired
Hi everyone,
Recently been using my AX8 at Uni for performances but whenever I plug into the PA (tried various PAs) my tones are very harsh and just full of treble. In order to fix this, I'm having to use very extreme EQ settings, treble/presence almost completely off in some cases, which then although the harshness is fixed, I'm left with a dull tone. I've never had to use any settings as extreme as these when using live amps at high volume. My best guess at the moment is that I haven't found the right IR, probably going to get CabLab so I can mix some together. I'm undoubtedly doing something quite wrong, any tips?


Thanks!
 
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I think someone qualified should write a sticky post about fletcher munson.

Dillonski,
just look around the forum a bit, specifically, as I write this there are two threads on the first page of the axefx2 section about this same topic.
 
SoProg said:
I think someone qualified should write a sticky post about fletcher munson.

Dillonski,
just look around the forum a bit, specifically, as I write this there are two threads on the first page of the axefx2 section about this same topic.
Click to expand...

Thanks man! Wasn't aware that was the name of it. I'll do some research
 
AJ Vargas said:
I'd really appreciate a "Fletcher-Munson for dummies" sticky, specially from the guitar player's POV.
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here you go....create patches at gig volumes. low volumes we have to boost highs and lows to hear them, at higher volumes those freq ranges become more apparent and are therefore exaggerated due to our dialing in process at low volumes. there's no way around it.
 
The crux of it, if I understand correctly, is bass frequencies are "different" than treble frequencies. They travel at different speeds based on their wavelength. It's not necessarily your IR's.
For guitar playing, this equates to needing more bass at higher volumes and less bass at lower volume levels.
I've had the same experience with my AX8 at first, and the way to deal with it is to MAKE YOUR PRESETS at gig levels, not bedroom levels. Always test presets at the level you will be playing to get accurate tones.
That said, venues, PA speakers, and weather conditions will effect your tones as well...however, then you simply adjust a bit, not a TON.

Detailed posts are available on this topic. It's an issue many of us have dealt with even outside the Fractal experience.
In the end, more bass is needed at higher volume levels, just the reality.
Best of luck, and enjoy the most excellent processor around :)
 
GtarLover said:
The crux of it, if I understand correctly, is bass frequencies are "different" than treble frequencies. They travel at different speeds based on their wavelength. It's not necessarily your IR's.
For guitar playing, this equates to needing more bass at higher volumes and less bass at lower volume levels.
I've had the same experience with my AX8 at first, and the way to deal with it is to MAKE YOUR PRESETS at gig levels, not bedroom levels. Always test presets at the level you will be playing to get accurate tones.
That said, venues, PA speakers, and weather conditions will effect your tones as well...however, then you simply adjust a bit, not a TON.

Detailed posts are available on this topic. It's an issue many of us have dealt with even outside the Fractal experience.
In the end, more bass is needed at higher volume levels, just the reality.
Best of luck, and enjoy the most excellent processor around :)
Click to expand...

NOPE NOPE NOPE!!! Speed of sound is the same for all frequencies!!!
 
Yeah frequencies all travel at the same speed, but lose energy at different rates. Low frequencies can travel further than high frequencies because they aren't absorbed as quickly. That's why you can hear the thump of someone's car stereo trunk bass from far away but can't hear any treble until they are right next to you. Fletcher-Munson (aka Equal Loudness Contours) has to do with our ears own sensitivity to different frequencies at different volumes. Our ears evolved to be very sensitive to midrange frequencies, particularly at a quiet speaking volume. It's how we can recognize people's voices so well, even in a loud and crowded room or over a crappy phone connection. We're particularly sensitive to around 3 kHz, which is right around the piercing quality of a crying baby or screaming child or woman. It's our "oh shit" frequency.
 
Thanks for the replies guys!
So what can I do about the very extreme EQ changes needed resulting in the dull tone? I'm tweaking my presets to counter the Fletcher Munson effect but to get my presets not souding harsh results in having to do extreme EQ changes till the tone is quite dull. Wrong IR maybe?
 
Dillonski said:
Thanks for the replies guys!
So what can I do about the very extreme EQ changes needed resulting in the dull tone? I'm tweaking my presets to counter the Fletcher Munson effect but to get my presets not souding harsh results in having to do extreme EQ changes till the tone is quite dull. Wrong IR maybe?
Click to expand...

I think "posting" a preset would certainly help because even basic presets, the ones that are NOT drenched in FX will not need all the eq ing you say you are having to do., So, please post a preset.
 
Dillonski said:
Thanks for the replies guys!
So what can I do about the very extreme EQ changes needed resulting in the dull tone? I'm tweaking my presets to counter the Fletcher Munson effect but to get my presets not souding harsh results in having to do extreme EQ changes till the tone is quite dull. Wrong IR maybe?
Click to expand...
Have you tried the high cut in the cab block? Try 4000 and see how you like it.
 
I definitely think you need to try a different IR. It sounds like the IR you are using probably sounds good at a low volume but is accentuating your high end at high volumes. Try some different IR's at gig volume along with using the HI Cut in the cab block mentioned above.
 
lwknives said:
NOPE NOPE NOPE!!! Speed of sound is the same for all frequencies!!!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification...
I just understand that the volume level matters. Don't totally grock the tech, sorry.
Have you tried making a new preset at gig level?? Just to hear it? Also, trying a couple IR's is an option, yet any IR can be cut to tame its high end. Sometimes I use X/Y cabs that shift the high cut on higher volumes.
 
Thanks for all the replies guys. Here is a preset I'm having trouble with. Already got the treble down a lot but still encounter harshness, if I go any lower the tone just gets dull at all volumes.
 

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