Hard pan a centered signal.. how?

prometh

prometh

Power User
Say I have a mono cab or a mono delay, how might I take it from a centered pan to a hard left and right pan?

I've tried:

  1. using two filter blocks, each with hard balancing of left and right; didn't notice anything
  2. inverting phase; "left" and "right" felt off to one side; "both" only sounded a bit louder
  3. enhancer block in modern mode; only sounded louder
 
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Let's assume you have amp/cab one line 1
two methods:
delay
chorus
1. delay

put a mono delay in parallel (line 2)
select a short delay 6 - 15ms
put a mix block on line one
pan line one hard left
pane line two hard right
experiment with the delay

2. Chorus
Same deal - chorus in parallel
mono chorus - 2 voices
try as little depth and delay as possible.

The trick is to get a little difference in tone/time as to differentiate them.
When a mono signal is fed to a stereo out, both signals are identical so it appears as if onbe signal is comming from the center.
That's how a karaoke effect works.
It inverses one side of the stereo feed and anything that is normally identical in both channels (like the voice) end appears center in the mix is cancelled out.
 
I don't mean that I'd like to widen with delays/etc, I just want to achieve hard panning.

Like this:
Fig-09-stereo-mix-1-GOOD.jpg


where my starting point is kick drum position in the centre, I'd like to duplicate and pan out to the shaker/tambourine positions
 
prometh said:
don't mean that I'd like to widen with delays/etc, I just want to achieve hard panning.
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I still don't understand what you are trying to achieve. Panning out two identical signals is the same as not panning them at all.
 
I still don't understand what you are trying to achieve. Panning out two identical signals is the same as not panning them at all.
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That's what I tried to explain.
I gave two methods two do this.
If you don't want to use delay or chorus, the only option you have is to play it twice and pan each track hard left and right
 
Center means a signal is distributed evenly to Left and Right outputs.

if you manually duplicate a signal and then distribute it evenly to the Left and Right outputs... that's what Center is. it will just be louder.

even if they weren't distributed evenly, the same signal duplicated then one panned a little left and another panned a lot right just means it would be louder in the right side - it would be the same as taking that single Center signal and panning it slightly right.

the signal being the same means the waveform is the same, meaning it would just amplify.

to achieve any discernible effect of panning, the signals present in left and right outputs MUST be different, even if only slightly. that's why people record the same part multiple times - they are playing the same thing but it will be slightly different, enough that you can hear a difference and a thickening effect when hard panned (i'm sure you knew that).

so using the delay or chorus to create a slight difference in the signal is a way to cheat with only 1 signal. i believe that's what the enhancer block does.
 
MisterE said:
Then your only option is to play it twice and pan both hard left and right
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That would be double tracking. I'm talking about a single track.

Chris@KatsuKuriMedia said:
Center means a signal is distributed evenly to Left and Right outputs.

if you manually duplicate a signal and then distribute it evenly to the Left and Right outputs... that's what Center is. it will just be louder.

even if they weren't distributed evenly, the same signal duplicated then one panned a little left and another panned a lot right just means it would be louder in the right side - it would be the same as taking that single Center signal and panning it slightly right.
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Okay, but then why does a stereo delay feel wider on both sides than a mono delay? It totally reaches extreme left and right on my monitors with the original signal in the centre.
 
prometh said:
Okay, but then why does a stereo delay feel wider on both sides than a mono delay? It totally reaches extreme left and right on my monitors with the original signal in the centre.
Click to expand...

Because it's doing something to make the left & right signals different: times not identical, or polarity of one side reversed.
 
prometh said:
Okay, but then why does a stereo delay feel wider on both sides than a mono delay? It totally reaches extreme left and right on my monitors with the original signal in the centre.
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Because the same input signal is processed differently for each left and right side. For example, if the exact same signal hits your left ear slightly earlier than the right one, you'll perceive a wider sound. If it hits your left ear a lot earlier than the right one, you'll hear two notes.
 
Stillbruch said:
Because the same input signal is processed differently for each left and right side. For example, if the exact same signal hits your left ear slightly earlier than the right one, you'll perceive a wider sound. If it hits your left ear a lot earlier than the right one, you'll hear two notes.
Click to expand...

yes. it's duplicating then changing the signal so the left is different than the right. again, with the same single source duplicated but not changed in anyway, it just amplifies the signal - panning will just amplify left or right, as mentioned above.
 
prometh said:
Ok, so then I need to use the "classic" mode of the Enhancer block, not the "modern" mode?
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Yes. Or ... you use 1 DLY-block in series after CAB (or whatever is between your CAB and output), mix 100%, time around 12 ms and pan fully to the left. Then, in parallel to the DLY-block, use f. ex. a VOL-block and pan it fully to the right. There is a Petrucci Rhythm-preset which uses exactly that method.
 
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