Happy New Matrix Day! NL212 & GT1000FX

ta6rma said:
First impressions of the NL212 after tonight's gig:

Amazingly light.
WOW it really does sound like a 4x12.
Tons of bottom end but still crystal clear.
Has a kind of 'hi-fi' quality to the sound.
Definitely much flatter than my previous cab with V30s, I added in a bit more mid and cut some of the highs with the global EQ to suit my taste.
Seems to have better dispersion than a standard cab.

So far so good!
994686_819592041588_43430628_n.jpg
Click to expand...

Cab sims on or off?
 
ta6rma said:
Has a kind of 'hi-fi' quality to the sound.
Click to expand...

Could you comment on this a bit more? One of the things I do NOT like about FRFR is the hi-fi quality that it brings to the table. Both the RCF NX12sma and the Atomic CLR have left the building here because I just don't care for that sound at all. I was hoping that these would bring more of a traditional guitar cabinet sound to the table when used with cabinet sims turned off than using FRFR with cabinet sims turned on. It these are just as "hi-fi" sounding as the top FRFR solutions then I think I'll just stick with a guitar cab...
 
ethomas1013 said:
I was hoping that these would bring more of a traditional guitar cabinet sound to the table when used with cabinet sims turned off than using FRFR with cabinet sims turned on.
Click to expand...

Our aim when we designed these was to produce a lightweight cab that sounded huge. We wanted the 4x12 push without the weight. The other design goal was for a "traditional" guitar speaker instead fo an FRFR, that would work well with the AxeFX. What we spent a lot of time looking for was a speaker that delivered enough of the traditional guitar cab sound to satisfy the people who didn't really get on with FRFR, yet at the same time not add too much "colour" to completely mask the AxeFX.

It's a difficult balance, and we built a lot of prototype cabs and went through a lot of different speakers before we were happy, but we think we succeded. There are plenty of players who are happy to take it without cab sims and enjoy the cab as it is. A little PEQ can help adjust it to your personal preference.

Some people have enjoyed using IR's with it and found that it gave them what they were missing in an FRFR setup. It is definitely NOT an FRFR cab and has the added colour of a trad guitar cab, but not so much as to overpower the Axe and make everyting sound the same.

If you have found FRFR not to your personal taste, perhaps a little soul-less and lifeless, the NL212 or NL12 was designed specifically to meet that need. With or without IR's is a personal preference, it can work out either way, try it and see. It's a little like a fine Whisky (or even a Whiskey, depending on which continent you are on ) .. some drink it with water, some take it straight ... but it's still a great Whisky :)

The only bad news ... with 2 days to go until Christmas, we had a bit of a rush on them and even though we had made extra to keep up with the Christmas rush ... we sold out. The next batch is scheduled to run as soon as we return on the 6th of Jan, all the bits are in, I would expect the store to begin showing stock again about a week later. We can reserve a few of the first ones to make sure anyone who is desperate to get their hands on one is satisfied as quickly as possible, I already have a small waiting list, let me know if you want adding to it, we'll give people on the list first option as they come become available in the new year.
 
I've had my NL212 for a couple months now and it's a keeper! I use it both in my studio & home practice along with full band practice all of the time. I haven't used it a gig yet, as I'm still using my RCF and FOH. I use the NL212 with cab sims on; just seems to be right for what I hear in my ears and fits in great with the band mix. I was going for a more traditional guitar cab feel and something with a very slight character, but with the full ability to take advantage of all the amps and IR's that we have access to in the AXE. I also wanted a cabinet that I could set my rack on, and have it flat/not tilted (as I like to keep some small items atop my rack without falling off).

IMO it took about a month of playing to break in the NL212 speakers; seemed to flatten out some of the high-end peaks. I absolutely love the weight (or lack thereof) and Matrix buying experience, shipping and customer support are all fantastic. All-in-all, I couldn't be happier.
 
RobinMatrix said:
If you have found FRFR not to your personal taste, perhaps a little soul-less and lifeless, the NL212 or NL12 was designed specifically to meet that need. With or without IR's is a personal preference, it can work out either way, try it and see.
Click to expand...

This sounds like what I am looking for. Of course no amount of internet discussion or listening to clips can equal personal, hands-on experience. I'm leaning towards ordering either the NL212 or NL12 early next year. No need to add me to a waiting list as I'm in no hurry and plan to sell a couple things before buying. Thanks for the reply!
 
ethomas1013 said:
Could you comment on this a bit more? One of the things I do NOT like about FRFR is the hi-fi quality that it brings to the table. Both the RCF NX12sma and the Atomic CLR have left the building here because I just don't care for that sound at all. I was hoping that these would bring more of a traditional guitar cabinet sound to the table when used with cabinet sims turned off than using FRFR with cabinet sims turned on. It these are just as "hi-fi" sounding as the top FRFR solutions then I think I'll just stick with a guitar cab...
Click to expand...

Maybe hifi was the wrong term - I've also tried FRFR and just don't like it as much as a real cab.
This was my first gig with the NL212, I use it with cab sims off.
Compared to my previous cab (Cornford 2x12 with V30s) I noticed more bottom end (I have a early '80s Marshall 4x12 with 80w Celestions and it matched that for low end).
The NL212 was also flatter in the midrange and had more clarity in the upper high end than the V30. I just had to tweak the global EQ a little for personal taste as I've been so used to the V30s.
I found that I could hear a bit more detail in the sound, for example the delays and reverbs seemed less 'muddy' than before.
I'm also using a different power amp and have gone from mono to stereo which will have made a difference as well.
I can only describe it as like I'd previously had a blanket over my cab that is now removed
 
ethomas1013 said:
This sounds like what I am looking for. Of course no amount of internet discussion or listening to clips can equal personal, hands-on experience.
Click to expand...

Agree .... I am an old tube guy and the NL12 brought me home.

But no amount of internet chatter can substitute for hands on experience.
 
So, currently I've been running a Xitone FRFR cab. Great cab by all means, but I'm still testing some things out with it, as it's my first cab since coming from a traditional tube amp and G12M-filled cab. My AFX didn't sound good running through my guitar cab (IMO) with the cab sims off or on. It just didn't have a good tone to it. Not sure why, but it didn't, which is what made me switch to the FRFR.

With all this chatter on the forum about the NL12's, I'm seriously considering checking one out to see what I'm missing... but if you're turning off the cab sims (and mic sims as well), then aren't you just pigeon-holing yourself into having something that has a "color" that is always there no matter which amp you choose? I thought that maybe, for many, that is what they were trying to maybe free themselves from by choosing the AFX over a single amp of choice.

I'd love my guitar cab with my real tube amp... but since I've had the AFX, I'm finding that I do enjoy having the selection of all types of amps, cabs, mics, etc. that I would normally never have the opportunity to play. And being able to mix and match all of those combinations (i.e. a Vox AC30 into a V30 4x12, etc.) is something that I wouldn't want to lose, but do you feel that by going with a "traditional" guitar speaker, such as a NL12, that I'd be giving all that up? I mean... if I wanted every amp in the AFX to be colored with a G12M, then I already have a cab sitting beside me for that. Just thinking out loud here and trying to find the best fit for not only my ears, but also to maximize the use of this amazing black box that we all love.
 
Jeff B raises a very good point that I've been pondering. If you run your Axe into the NL12(212) with cab sims off
are't you all of your patches now sounding like they're running through an "NL". I see that V30's GT-75's etc add their own color to a patch but
with cab sims off, don't you have the same issue of having all of your patches still sound like they are going through the same cab ?....because they are.
If I create a Friedman high gain patch and I run it through a NL cab and I want that "GT-65 speaker sound I'm not going to get it unless I add some EQ magic to my patch to add /remove the speaker qualities of a GT-65 . Same with a Mesa patch if I want a recto 4X12 sounding cab I am going to have to add some EQ magic
to get it.
So I guess my question here is , what is this speaker really all about? Is it just a great sounding neutral speaker?
doesn't a neutral speaker basically have the same drawbacks of a non neutral speaker , in the sense of 'sounding the same"
Can Someone please clarify this for me, as I'm not here to bash anything, just unclear about what these cabs "intent" are all about (besides the weight which is a non issue for me)
 
Last edited:
kmanick said:
Jeff B raises a very good point that I've been pondering. If you run your Axe into the NL12(212) with cab sims off
are't you all of your patches now sounding like they're running through an "NL". I see that V30's GT-75's etc add their own color to a patch but
with cab sims off, don't you have the same issue of having all of your patches still sound like they are going through the same cab ?....because they are.
If I create a Friedman high gain patch and I run it through a NL cab and I want that "GT-65 speaker sound I'm not going to get it unless I add some EQ magic to my patch to add /remove the speaker qualities of a GT-65 . Same with a Mesa patch if I want a recto 4X12 sounding cab I am going to have to add some EQ magic
to get it.
So I guess my question here is , what is this speaker really all about? Is it just a great sounding neutral speaker?
doesn't a neutral speaker basically have the same drawbacks of a non neutral speaker , in the sense of 'sounding the same"
Can Someone please clarify this for me, as I'm not here to bash anything, just unclear about what these cabs "intent" are all about (besides the weight which
is a on issue for me)
Click to expand...

We need to find a NL in Boston for our next shootout.
Anyone have on in Boston????
 
kmanick said:
doesn't a neutral speaker basically have the same drawbacks of a non neutral speaker , in the sense of 'sounding the same"
Click to expand...

Basically, yes. The advantage of a transparent transducer is that it allows the user to keep cab sims on, where the "cab" is the part of the patch which imposes the most part of the "real" rig. When you switch cab sim off, any speaker will render the sound in a certain ("its") way. The most musically sounding speaker being, most certainly, the less linear.

HTH :)
 
Have a read of my post #23 somewhere up there ^^^ I hope that gets across what we tried to do when designed this cab.

The "intent" was to put a smile on peoples faces when they play it, and we think we have done that.

I totally understand what you are saying about it giving some of it's own flavour to the the sound, and you are right it will. If you truly want perfectly "accurate" sounds exactly as defined by an IR of a particular cab, then FRFR is the way to go for sure. If you have tried FRFR and it didn't tick all the boxes for you, and you still felt you were missing something, try this.

Sometimes its easy to forget that amongst all the sampling theories and algorithms that music is a very personal thing and making music cannot be totally brought down to a mathematical model and a set of instructions. You are quite right, feeding a signal with cab sims on into a speaker that has its own flavour will not give a perfectly mathematically correct output. However, if that sound you get puts a smile on your face and is the sound you have been looking for ... does it matter?
 
kmanick said:
Jeff B raises a very good point that I've been pondering. If you run your Axe into the NL12(212) with cab sims off
are't you all of your patches now sounding like they're running through an "NL". I see that V30's GT-75's etc add their own color to a patch but
with cab sims off, don't you have the same issue of having all of your patches still sound like they are going through the same cab ?....because they are.
If I create a Friedman high gain patch and I run it through a NL cab and I want that "GT-65 speaker sound I'm not going to get it unless I add some EQ magic to my patch to add /remove the speaker qualities of a GT-65 . Same with a Mesa patch if I want a recto 4X12 sounding cab I am going to have to add some EQ magic
to get it.
So I guess my question here is , what is this speaker really all about? Is it just a great sounding neutral speaker?
doesn't a neutral speaker basically have the same drawbacks of a non neutral speaker , in the sense of 'sounding the same"
Can Someone please clarify this for me, as I'm not here to bash anything, just unclear about what these cabs "intent" are all about (besides the weight which
is a on issue for me)
Click to expand...

I think you guys are missing the point of this speaker. It's not meant to be a FRFR, it's a neutral light weight compact speaker that sounds like a cab in the room.
 
Hey supersonic, what's the difference supposed to be between "FRFR" (whatever it means) and neutral, regardless the actual implementations?
 
viabcroce said:
Hey supersonic, what's the difference supposed to be between "FRFR" (whatever it means) and neutral, regardless the actual implementations?
Click to expand...

Don't mean to answer for Supersonic, but from what I know the FRFR (full range-flat response) is covering the entire (or near) spectrum of frequencies from 20-20k so the entire sonic "picture" is there. Whereas with the NL12, it's not a full range, so like a traditional cab, you're going to lose some of the low and high frequencies (even though the NL12 may grab more than a traditional cab), but the curve is probably going to be more flat than another similar cab with v30s, G12s, etc. that may have spikes in the mids, lows, etc.

I went with the FRFR when I did because I wanted to try and use the IRs to give me the best reproduction as possible, but maybe the NL12s are the way for me to go instead since I'm still searching for that something that Im not hearing in my current setup.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom